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  • Shea Knight
    replied
    All that being said, though, if Wheeler is--by your own admission--still "a work in progress," Strawman, you can't say yet that he'll never touch Harvey.

    It DOES seem like you have an anti-Alderson bias...and all I can say about that is...eh?

    I mean, I still think there HAD to have been a way to keep Reyes or Dickey, at least one of the two (though with Dickey's first two starts this year, Alderson may yet prove he dealt him just at the right time...though I have to admit I hope that's not the case, I just like R.A. too much to want him to bottom out like that in order to make Alderson's deal look the savvier, I hope his next start is better) but really--

    In a sense, there was only so much Alderson could so thanks to Wilponzi.

    The Beltran deal made sense at the time, and if Wheeler pays off it'll really be validated...
    I still say there had to be some way of keeping Jose, but if it was a choice between Reyes and Wright, I'm glad they saved the money to sign the latter...
    And then you have the Dickey deal.

    If Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, and Wheeler pan out, Alderson will have given us a pretty good team in resigning Wright, giving us a Harvey/Wheeler/Niese/Syndergaard/#5 Pitcher rotation, an infield which (as long as D'Arnaud performs anywhere near what's expected and Ike doesn't go down the drain) is home grown and pretty good in D'Arnaud/Ike/Murphy/Tejada/Wright...that leaves him free to spend on a good outfield bat or two, or maybe fix the bullpen, and we're back in it, as it seems Philly's starting to deteriorate and Miami crashed and burned before it could even really take off that much...

    That leaves a Nats/Mets/Braves race, and that can only get tighter if Alderson's prospects pay off.

    If not...well, we'd have been in this position anyway, thanks to one of the worst owners in the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Yeah a warrior's mentality for shooting your own side. A bad episode, but he can grow from it and learn and mature (hopefully). I have to give Alderson credit - he was on top of the situation and didn't sugarcoat it.
    Yeah and maybe the kid who initiated the response will learn not to embarass a teammate.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    The fact that you cited Wheeler's twitter as a reason why he should be considered a risk made me laugh heartily.

    Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    Punkish and stupid is showing up a teammate. The other kid was talked to just as harshly as Wheeler. I would rather a pitcher with a mean streak and a warriors mentality (Bob Gibson, Juan Maracial, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens) than a wilting daisy any day of the week.
    Yeah a warrior's mentality for shooting your own side. A bad episode, but he can grow from it and learn and mature (hopefully). I have to give Alderson credit - he was on top of the situation and didn't sugarcoat it.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    And I do not. It's both punkish and stupid. Trying to hurt a teammate is a bad deal. If his name wasn't "Wheeler" it would count against him in any organization in baseball.

    Now, he's been spoken to a disciplined - and maybe it's just a one time thing. We do tend to expect too much from very young guys.
    Punkish and stupid is showing up a teammate. The other kid was talked to just as harshly as Wheeler. I would rather a pitcher with a mean streak and a warriors mentality (Bob Gibson, Juan Maracial, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens) than a wilting daisy any day of the week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Well both those things are true - Harvey was Minaya's guy and Alderson traded Beltran for Wheeler. I can't deny that part of it. But let's look at the players. Harvey does appear to be a lot farther along and his mental toughness is obvious. Wheeler is still a lottery ticket, he's Pulsipher et al. Maybe he'll be a great one. I dunno. Three minor signs this spring: that oblique strain, his decision to head hunt a teammate in an intra-squad game, and his poor start in Vegas (Backman says he needs more "needs more consistency and command.") Maybe throw in his goofy Twitter feed. Maybe they add up to nothing.

    But if you're a betting man, Harvey is clearly here - and with evident maturity. Wheeler is still on the way, a work in progress.
    Removing the GM biased I cant disagree with your opinion here. Harvey is here and pitching well....Wheeler isn't. I just don't see it as reflection on either GM.

    A couple of weeks ago my computer had a virus....I am pretty sure it was Sandy Aldersons fault. Just saying.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    Maybe if his teammate didn't show him up then he wouldn't throw at him. I take that incident as a plus in his favor.
    And I do not. It's both punkish and stupid. Trying to hurt a teammate is a bad deal. If his name wasn't "Wheeler" it would count against him in any organization in baseball.

    Now, he's been spoken to a disciplined - and maybe it's just a one time thing. We do tend to expect too much from very young guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Maybe if his teammate didn't show him up then he wouldn't throw at him. I take that incident as a plus in his favor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Shea your missing the point of Straws agenda here. Wheeler was acquired by Alderson....Matt Harvey by Minaya or thereabouts. Its an Alderson/Minaya thing. You can actually insert Minaya's name when he talks about Harvey, and Wheelers name when he mentions Alderson.

    Cmon Strawman...fess up.
    Well both those things are true - Harvey was Minaya's guy and Alderson traded Beltran for Wheeler. I can't deny that part of it. But let's look at the players. Harvey does appear to be a lot farther along and his mental toughness is obvious. Wheeler is still a lottery ticket, he's Pulsipher et al. Maybe he'll be a great one. I dunno. Three minor signs this spring: that oblique strain, his decision to head hunt a teammate in an intra-squad game, and his poor start in Vegas (Backman says he needs more "needs more consistency and command.") Maybe throw in his goofy Twitter feed. Maybe they add up to nothing.

    But if you're a betting man, Harvey is clearly here - and with evident maturity. Wheeler is still on the way, a work in progress.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    Wheeler hasn't even had an MLB start yet, how can you say he won't touch Harvey? On what grounds do you say that?

    Harvey's been great so far, no question, but that doesn't mean Wheeler won't be as good or better...we don't know...

    Shea your missing the point of Straws agenda here. Wheeler was acquired by Alderson....Matt Harvey by Minaya or thereabouts. Its an Alderson/Minaya thing. You can actually insert Minaya's name when he talks about Harvey, and Wheelers name when he mentions Alderson.

    Cmon Strawman...fess up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Harvey can absolutely be a Cy Young winner. A lot of futurists pin a massive upside on Zack Wheeler, but he's never going to touch Harvey, in my view. Harvey is the real deal, the once in generation young starter. And a lot of it is mental toughness. He just won't give in.
    Wheeler hasn't even had an MLB start yet, how can you say he won't touch Harvey? On what grounds do you say that?

    Harvey's been great so far, no question, but that doesn't mean Wheeler won't be as good or better...we don't know...

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Well we really don't know where Wheeler ends up or where Harvey ends up...but Harvey look every bit the ace. We can only hope Wheeler comes as advertised. Harvey just looks tough as hell out there.
    He has such a mound presence doesnt he? He is the anti-Pelfrey

    Leave a comment:


  • Herr28
    replied
    Wow. I gotta watch his next start! I really like this guy, having picked him up early when he came up last year (on my fantasy team), and I drafted him this year! Best on my staff with names like Weaver, Dickey, Wainwright, Ryu and others. Keep it up Harvey!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Harvey can absolutely be a Cy Young winner. A lot of futurists pin a massive upside on Zack Wheeler, but he's never going to touch Harvey, in my view. Harvey is the real deal, the once in generation young starter. And a lot of it is mental toughness. He just won't give in.
    Well we really don't know where Wheeler ends up or where Harvey ends up...but Harvey look every bit the ace. We can only hope Wheeler comes as advertised. Harvey just looks tough as hell out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Harvey can absolutely be a Cy Young winner. A lot of futurists pin a massive upside on Zack Wheeler, but he's never going to touch Harvey, in my view. Harvey is the real deal, the once in generation young starter. And a lot of it is mental toughness. He just won't give in.

    Leave a comment:

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