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  • Is There Really a Plan?

    As the Mets stood pat at the deadline, three games under .500 and a longshot for wild card contention, the front office didn't buy and it didn't sell. It did nothing.

    And yet we hear how the Mets are "sticking to the plan," not "mortgaging the future" or making a trade "simply to make a trade." It's all bland corporate speak, ancient meaningless cliches covering what we can all see with the naked eye: which is nothing, pure inaction. Even Terry Collins and David Wright spoke somewhat testily about this particular deadline.

    I don't think there is a "plan" at all - or none that can be well-described for fans or the media. It's just a vast holding pattern, circling the airport endlessly. Yeah, perhaps the team got a good pitcher in Wheeler (for Beltran), but that's the extent of the story from the franchise since the change was made uptown and this particular big man joined the band.

    Maybe somebody can show me a plan, but I don't see one. I believe the GM will be gone in a year, leaving the gig to one of the two assistants (both former GMs). The budget appears to be on hold. The Wilpons appear to be hanging the Mission Accomplished sign from the bridge of Citi Field - we're a middle market, second tier franchise and that's the way it's going to be. That's the "plan."
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  • #2
    Of course there's a plan:

    1) For the City to build Fred, Saul and the Fetus a multi-billion dollar "neighborhood" across the street from their subsidized mallpark.

    2) For Fred, Saul and the Fetus to appropriate their neighbors' land and stick the public with a half-billion dollar tab in the process.

    3) To slash baseball operations to a pittance to enable Fred, Saul and the Fetus to:

    a) pocket a nine figure annual sum from SNY revenue

    b) pocket an eight to nine figure annual sum from tickets, concessions, parking, etc.

    Obviously ownership is happy with that plan.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

    Comment


    • #3
      ^
      All part and parcel with running the Brooklyn Dodg--I mean, the New York Mets.

      But hey, they got rid of our Mets' old home, She Stadium, to rebuilt Ebbets F--that is, to build the brand-new, totally-original, totally-for-the-Mets Citi Field.
      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Strawman View Post
        As the Mets stood pat at the deadline, three games under .500 and a longshot for wild card contention, the front office didn't buy and it didn't sell. It did nothing.

        And yet we hear how the Mets are "sticking to the plan," not "mortgaging the future" or making a trade "simply to make a trade." It's all bland corporate speak, ancient meaningless cliches covering what we can all see with the naked eye: which is nothing, pure inaction. Even Terry Collins and David Wright spoke somewhat testily about this particular deadline.

        I don't think there is a "plan" at all - or none that can be well-described for fans or the media. It's just a vast holding pattern, circling the airport endlessly. Yeah, perhaps the team got a good pitcher in Wheeler (for Beltran), but that's the extent of the story from the franchise since the change was made uptown and this particular big man joined the band.

        Maybe somebody can show me a plan, but I don't see one. I believe the GM will be gone in a year, leaving the gig to one of the two assistants (both former GMs). The budget appears to be on hold. The Wilpons appear to be hanging the Mission Accomplished sign from the bridge of Citi Field - we're a middle market, second tier franchise and that's the way it's going to be. That's the "plan."
        I would not complain if they were buyers at the deadline; even renting a free agent for 3 months.
        I could not complain if they were sellers. trying to dump people who probably do not belong on a MLB roster.

        I do feel like complaining if ownership/management says "well this is the team we are sticking with and this is the team you pay to see".

        At 50-54, I think the best we see is around .500.

        Teams like the Dodgers, White Sox, Angels (especially the Angels) and some others made moves to at least try to make a play off push. Even the Yankees make a couple of moves, and they really could have stood pat. I guess they believe if you stand still, LAA and CHW are going to catch up on you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Better no deal than a bad deal...

          We're clearly not contending this year anymore, so if the prospect price wasn't right for Hairston or Santana or whoever else, then no use prematurely selling them off, plenty of time to do that in the offseason, or keep, or whatever else.
          "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
            Better no deal than a bad deal...

            We're clearly not contending this year anymore, so if the prospect price wasn't right for Hairston or Santana or whoever else, then no use prematurely selling them off, plenty of time to do that in the offseason, or keep, or whatever else.
            For once Mr Shea Knight we are in 100% agreement.

            All this "well the Mets didnt do anything". Is just baloney to me.

            Its not like the Mets were desperate because they were one player away from putting them over the top. Anyone that can look honestly at this team knows that they are far away, and making a bad deal to band-aid a problem is just very short sighted. Which lets face it ...most fans are. Everyone wants instant gratification.

            As far as the plan..Well Mongoose nailed it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              For once Mr Shea Knight we are in 100% agreement.

              All this "well the Mets didnt do anything". Is just baloney to me.

              Its not like the Mets were desperate because they were one player away from putting them over the top. Anyone that can look honestly at this team knows that they are far away, and making a bad deal to band-aid a problem is just very short sighted. Which lets face it ...most fans are. Everyone wants instant gratification.

              As far as the plan..Well Mongoose nailed it.
              I think most of us will admit that the Mets are several players away from contending for the whole year. It's not a matter of "If we had Jose Reyes" this and "If we traded Santana" that. It's a matter of "We're using guys who shouldn't be in the MLB in the rotation" and "What the hell are we going to do about the bullpen?".

              If you can trade Santana/Hairston/whomever to get someone worthwhile, go ahead and do it. But don't do a Putz trade because you feel like you have to do something.

              Wilpon is in it to make money, heedless of if the team wins or not. This is the problem. If you want to see a better team, force him to sell.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                Better no deal than a bad deal...
                This is the prevailing wisdom among a corner of long-term fan base, I know - but it just reads as an excuse to me, an easily tossed-off line that lets the team (and by team, I mean the ownership/management cabal) off the hook.

                Let's face it - this is, at heart, an entertainment business. Showing that you're trying to improve the team by changing some parts - now or for the near future - when some are clearly not working (see: Worst Bullpen in Major League Baseball - author: Alderson, Richard "Sandy", 2012) is part of the gig.

                This pathetic stasis - with its attendant hemming and hawing and doublespeak (and I agree, the GM is in a horrid position to have to go out and front Jeff Wilpon) - is just another factor sinking the Mets. This deadline demanded some change, some action because it's so clear what parts are pure failures.
                Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                  This is the prevailing wisdom among a corner of long-term fan base, I know - but it just reads as an excuse to me, an easily tossed-off line that lets the team (and by team, I mean the ownership/management cabal) off the hook.

                  Let's face it - this is, at heart, an entertainment business. Showing that you're trying to improve the team by changing some parts - now or for the near future - when some are clearly not working (see: Worst Bullpen in Major League Baseball - author: Alderson, Richard "Sandy", 2012) is part of the gig.

                  This pathetic stasis - with its attendant hemming and hawing and doublespeak (and I agree, the GM is in a horrid position to have to go out and front Jeff Wilpon) - is just another factor sinking the Mets. This deadline demanded some change, some action because it's so clear what parts are pure failures.
                  What your post says to me, and I agree with it is that FANS ARE EASILY FOOLED.

                  If they some useless moves or worse yet, some bad moves to appease the fan base.....an thereefore fooling them...whats the point? Yes they have the worst pen...so what? What are they suppose to do...Go get Broxton and over pay for him to fool the fan base into thinking that the Mets are doing something.

                  Personally I am glad they didnt make any panic moves to appease "Joe from Bayonne" on WFAN.

                  As we can see the two out hitting has slowed...the SP's are not doing what they did two months ago...and what has happened. So we get two relievers and the rest of team stops performing WAAAAAAY over their heads. Now what?

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                  • #10
                    Sounds like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic is what another portion of the fan base calls for. Either way that's all it amounts to while the ownership remains the same.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good thread. While I was concerned the Mets were going to make a Scott Kazmir like disaster move it would have been nice to do something when they were in the race. Like pickup the salary on a struggling reliever so they don't have to trade away anyone. Maybe that opportunity never came up. Still, it makes it real easy to see the plan as being right along Mongoose's post.

                      Are there any signs at all that it's something else? Did they say we're locking down Wright for life? Did they say anything about Dickey, Santana, Ike, or anyone that's going to be part of a long-term core? I still watch and listen and hope because I'm a fan and that's what I do but someone has to give me a reason to pay one cent to watch this team.

                      And once preseason starts with football and the Rangers start skating the Mets will be in my rear view mirror, as usual, until the winter meetings.
                      Sign Cespedes & Murphy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                        What your post says to me, and I agree with it is that FANS ARE EASILY FOOLED.

                        If they some useless moves or worse yet, some bad moves to appease the fan base.....an thereefore fooling them...whats the point? Yes they have the worst pen...so what? What are they suppose to do...Go get Broxton and over pay for him to fool the fan base into thinking that the Mets are doing something.

                        Personally I am glad they didnt make any panic moves to appease "Joe from Bayonne" on WFAN.

                        As we can see the two out hitting has slowed...the SP's are not doing what they did two months ago...and what has happened. So we get two relievers and the rest of team stops performing WAAAAAAY over their heads. Now what?
                        I would have been very happy if the Mets made only one move.....release Jason Bay. They have to pay him anyway....why pay him to destroy your lineup. I would rather he stink up Philly or Atlanta....anywhere but in the Mets line up.

                        Terry Collins has said more than once that Jason Bay could be the "big righthanded bat" the Mets have been seeking.
                        Usually, that sounds like wishful thinking. On Thursday, though, Bay was at least a run-producer. His two-out, two-run single in the first inning kick-started the Mets to a 9-1 win over the Giants in the series finale at AT&T Park.
                        http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...ants-1.3879024

                        Are people joking? Seriously, 5 hrs 10 rbi .160 avg. Doesn't Bay have something like 3-4 hits with men in scoring position? (maybe less?). He gets a hit, gets 2 ribbies in a 9-1 win, and he is the right handed bat the Mets have been looking for.

                        Most people here were demanding Ollie be released. Many people were demanding K-rod be released. Some People wanted Castillo released. I wonder why Bay does not get the same amount of heat as the other 3 non productive guys mentioned.

                        I also feel that Omar took a lot more heat than Alderson, probably with some justification. But that is another topic.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                          I would have been very happy if the Mets made only one move.....release Jason Bay. They have to pay him anyway....why pay him to destroy your lineup. I would rather he stink up Philly or Atlanta....anywhere but in the Mets line up.

                          Terry Collins has said more than once that Jason Bay could be the "big righthanded bat" the Mets have been seeking.
                          Usually, that sounds like wishful thinking. On Thursday, though, Bay was at least a run-producer. His two-out, two-run single in the first inning kick-started the Mets to a 9-1 win over the Giants in the series finale at AT&T Park.
                          http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...ants-1.3879024

                          Are people joking? Seriously, 5 hrs 10 rbi .160 avg. Doesn't Bay have something like 3-4 hits with men in scoring position? (maybe less?). He gets a hit, gets 2 ribbies in a 9-1 win, and he is the right handed bat the Mets have been looking for.

                          Most people here were demanding Ollie be released. Many people were demanding K-rod be released. Some People wanted Castillo released. I wonder why Bay does not get the same amount of heat as the other 3 non productive guys mentioned.

                          I also feel that Omar took a lot more heat than Alderson, probably with some justification. But that is another topic.
                          I think Ollie took more heat than Bay because Ollie showed his true colors by refusing to go down to the minors. Bay although he has been terrible he has always been a stand up guy. The fans booing him after he got hurt is still one of the most classless things I have ever seen fans do. Including Philadelphia fans...so thats saying something.

                          In my opinion Omar deserves more heat than Alderson. Look at the difference in working conditions. Omar had $140 million dollar payroll to work with. Alderson has been working on a downward sliding scale payroll system. Minaya spent and wasted more money than Alderson will ever be allowed to spend. I wont go into the details of all the deals that Minaya overpayed for...its well documented and we all know what they are. Alderson will not be given the chance to make that kind of mistake.

                          I always appear to be the Alderson apologist which is not true at all. Although Alderson has done very little while he was here, that is what I expected given the state of the teams finances. I still believe if given $140 million dollar payroll Alderson will come up with a team that is a consistent competitor without draining the minor league system. We will never find this out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Guys, I hate to be a killjoy, but we're walking a fine line between this discussion and that in the Ownership/Management thread.

                            Btw, I think the best line in this whole thread is Pauly's, "Personally I am glad they didnt make any panic moves to appease 'Joe from Bayonne' on WFAN." I totally agree with that and am glad that no kneejerk moves were made just to put up smoke and mirrors to make it appear as if the Mets are doing something to salvage 2012. At very least, the team realizes that Rome wasn't built in a day.
                            Put it in the books.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by milladrive View Post
                              Guys, I hate to be a killjoy, but we're walking a fine line between this discussion and that in the Ownership/Management thread.

                              Btw, I think the best line in this whole thread is Pauly's, "Personally I am glad they didnt make any panic moves to appease 'Joe from Bayonne' on WFAN." I totally agree with that and am glad that no kneejerk moves were made just to put up smoke and mirrors to make it appear as if the Mets are doing something to salvage 2012. At very least, the team realizes that Rome wasn't built in a day.
                              Apparently neither is Flushing

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