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So what exactly are the Mets doing, and what is being accomplished?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    That may be right. That may be the Aldersonian-Wilponsian reason. But from a baseball strategy standpoint, if you make that move, now you have to go out and load up for 14-15-16 and fast. You don't trade your ace, you sign guys, you bulk up, you make that run. Otherwise, you should have traded the 30-year-old 3B. Makes no baseball sense at all.
    No it doesnt make baseball sense. As I have been saying...you sign both or you sign neither, but right now under Wilscum Wright was signed not as a "baseball move", but a "shut the fans up" move. My opinion, but also very obvious.

    Comment


    • #17
      The Mets should sign him and give him the $26 million two year addition. Obviously, he pitched well last year AND the two years before. He is steady, likes NYC, performs well here and is well liked on the team.

      2010 he was 11-9, 2.84 era, 1.18 WHIP team won 79 games
      2011 he was 8-13, 3.28 era, 1.22 WHIP team won 77 games
      2012 he was 20-6, 2.73 era, 1.05 WHIP Cy Young team won 74 games

      So as an NL pitcher the last 3 years, with his knuckler under control, he is 39-28, 2.95 era and a 1.15 WHIP.

      Given what other pitchers with worse numbers get, he is being VERY reasonable. The Mets should pay him not just piss him off.

      Comment


      • #18
        I'd like it noted just for the record that I've left this thread alone, despite Pauly's inaugural acknowledgement and the fact that the various posts could be relocated to several different Met threads.

        "And their chances of getting back into this ballgame are growing dimmer by the batter."


        Put it in the books.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
          If the Mets want to get near 70 wins they better keep Dickey. Now that Wright has been signed it only makes sense to me to sign Dickey.
          74 wins without Dickey.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Strawman View Post
            I agree - it completely asinine to sign Wright long-term for big bucks and then move Dickey for the equivalent of a Lotto ticket on talent. Signing Wright means "win in next 5 years." That's it. Complete change of direction for this front office, too.
            The Dickey trade for d'Arnaud, Syndergaard and Buck hopefully, along with Wheeler, may be what Alderson is remembered for, not Cowgill. Particularly since Syndergaard was just ranked the no. 3 MLB pitching prospect.
            Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-03-2013, 01:47 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
              The Dickey trade for d'Arnaud, Syndergaard and Buck hopefully, along with Wheeler, may be what Alderson is remembered for, not Cowgill. Particularly since Syndergaard was just ranked the no. 3 MLB pitching prospect.
              Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

              D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...
              Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

                D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...

                D'Arnaud is a bust? You are ready to make that decison so quickly? Statements like that are why I will trust the guys who get paid to rank talent over emotional fans. They may not be right all the time but at least there opinions are based on facts and not emotions. You may be right, but no way can you make that decision after such a small sample size. Just like the team could not have the worst outfield ever based on April stats and it could not be determined that Wheeler had no heart after 4 starts. There are plenty of things to focus negativity on, but in no way what so ever can anyone make an intelligent decision about D'Arnaud based on the less than 2 months he played in 2013.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                  D'Arnaud is a bust? You are ready to make that decison so quickly? Statements like that are why I will trust the guys who get paid to rank talent over emotional fans. They may not be right all the time but at least there opinions are based on facts and not emotions. You may be right, but no way can you make that decision after such a small sample size. Just like the team could not have the worst outfield ever based on April stats and it could not be determined that Wheeler had no heart after 4 starts. There are plenty of things to focus negativity on, but in no way what so ever can anyone make an intelligent decision about D'Arnaud based on the less than 2 months he played in 2013.
                  1. D'Arnaud is a bust ... so far. Haven't liked what I've seen, especially at the plate and with the arm. Not as advertised, not yet anyway. He's been hurt. Next year, Johnny Bench?

                  2. Wheeler was very good, I give him credit - but I don't think he's going to be a number one on a very good team. And some in the FO still have some doubts on make-up (not saying he "has no heart"):

                  Plus, those who had concerns about his personality fitting the New York market have not changed their minds after observing Wheeler during his rookie season. If anything, those concerns have grown.
                  http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bas...g-zack-wheeler

                  3. That outfield was horrible to start the year - hideous. A pathetic joke. That was pre-Young and Lagares.

                  I'm just saying these minor league rankings and lists are just so much noise. Who even knows if Synergaard (No. 3!) is better than Montero (only No. 50) - heck his actual performance wasn't. So it's all guesswork.
                  Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                    Ranking = nothing at all. Bupkis. We've had tons of ranked, listed players. Let's see what he does at the top level.

                    D'Arnaud is a bust and Buck is gone, so that trade hinges on Syndergaard now...
                    There is no way one can tell that d'Arnaud is a bust. You can hope he is a bust but the ML at bats aren't enough to tell. He appears to be a fine young man. And Buck became Vic Black who is promising.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Also a catcher who isn't an immortal one of a kind player like Bench isn't a bust. He is merely not Bench. One was 14 for 86 in his first yr and one was 20 for 99 in his first yr. Means nothing as far as a comparison.
                      Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-03-2013, 09:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        um Bench came up for a cup of coffee in 1967 and in 93 PAs hit 1 HR and his slash line was .163/.207/.256 for an OPS+ of 26. Gary Carter hit .219 in his second season. Granted Bench was 19 and Carter 22 which is a big, some would argue the whole difference. But the point is some guys who do sucky their first time around wind up sucking and others don't. If you can mock the Yetis and Lochness Monsters and werewolves who were calling John Buck and all-star after a month then why turn around and make conclusions based on not much more evidence on D'Arnaud. Note: this does not mean I am saying he will be Carter or Bench, just give him a full season and then we will have a better idea.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                          74 wins without Dickey.
                          You actually took some time to dig this thread up to tell me I was 5 games off. Good job here. Ok so they had 74 without Dickey, and the Mets were 5 games better than I predicted......shoot me. They still sucked. 69 wins - 74 wins...sucking is sucking.

                          You have become....or maybe always were the perfect Wilpon Met fan. Your counting on prospects. Awesome. At this rate they will be a .500 team by 2025 on the same day they have David Wright Day. I cant wait. I wont say Travis is a bust yet, but 2014 has to his year to start showing something, and remain injury free. Buck is gone. Syndergaard is hopefully the real deal

                          Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

                          Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                            You actually took some time to dig this thread up to tell me I was 5 games off. Good job here. Ok so they had 74 without Dickey, and the Mets were 5 games better than I predicted......shoot me. They still sucked. 69 wins - 74 wins...sucking is sucking.

                            You have become....or maybe always were the perfect Wilpon Met fan. Your counting on prospects. Awesome. At this rate they will be a .500 team by 2025 on the same day they have David Wright Day. I cant wait. I wont say Travis is a bust yet, but 2014 has to his year to start showing something, and remain injury free. Buck is gone. Syndergaard is hopefully the real deal

                            Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

                            Albert Einstein

                            There are some numbers that some Wilpon apologists just can't explain away. Despite the Mets getting the best of every single trade (even Angel Pagan?), and having the best farm system in MLB, and the best stadium, and a great GM, and a very good manager, and the best young pitching staff, and a future hall of famer at first base, and the best catching prospect, and the best short stop, and they even have shake shack.....despite all of that.....

                            The Mets have not won a WS in 27 years and counting. This is the longest drought in NYC NL history, replacing the 1933-1954 drought.
                            The Mets have not made it to a single post season game, even a tie breaker, since 2006.
                            The Mets have had 5 straight losing seasons, losing 92,83,85,88,88 games in the last five seasons.

                            But in spite of these numbers, other fan bases are jealous of the Mets success. (This was an actual statement made on BF) I don't know how many stadiums some of the Wilponzi fans have gone to, but I have gone to around 20 or more and I am still waiting for ONE fans to come up and tell me they are jealous. Usually wearing a Mets shirt in a ballpark elicits sympathy and empathy.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                              You actually took some time to dig this thread up to tell me I was 5 games off. Good job here. Ok so they had 74 without Dickey, and the Mets were 5 games better than I predicted......shoot me. They still sucked. 69 wins - 74 wins...sucking is sucking.

                              You have become....or maybe always were the perfect Wilpon Met fan. Your counting on prospects. Awesome. At this rate they will be a .500 team by 2025 on the same day they have David Wright Day. I cant wait. I wont say Travis is a bust yet, but 2014 has to his year to start showing something, and remain injury free. Buck is gone. Syndergaard is hopefully the real deal

                              Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

                              Albert Einstein
                              I apologize for picking on the number of wins you thought the Mets would have without Dickey and I have a confession. If you did not mention over and over and over again who owned the team, it would take me a while to come up with the name because I simply don't care who owns the team. I am a Met fan not a fan of whoever the current owner happens to be. If I had a really negative opinion of the owner I would probably no longer root for that team because it would be too aggravating. That to me is what Einstein meant, complaining about an owner but expecting different results.
                              Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-04-2013, 08:02 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                                There are some numbers that some Wilpon apologists just can't explain away. Despite the Mets getting the best of every single trade (even Angel Pagan?), and having the best farm system in MLB, and the best stadium, and a great GM, and a very good manager, and the best young pitching staff, and a future hall of famer at first base, and the best catching prospect, and the best short stop, and they even have shake shack.....despite all of that.....

                                The Mets have not won a WS in 27 years and counting. This is the longest drought in NYC NL history, replacing the 1933-1954 drought.
                                The Mets have not made it to a single post season game, even a tie breaker, since 2006.
                                The Mets have had 5 straight losing seasons, losing 92,83,85,88,88 games in the last five seasons.

                                But in spite of these numbers, other fan bases are jealous of the Mets success. (This was an actual statement made on BF) I don't know how many stadiums some of the Wilponzi fans have gone to, but I have gone to around 20 or more and I am still waiting for ONE fans to come up and tell me they are jealous. Usually wearing a Mets shirt in a ballpark elicits sympathy and empathy.
                                If the Dodgers and Tigers fail to win this year that will make 25 and 29 years and counting. Somehow I don't believe their fans will agonize over this drought. They are probably happy just to have the opportunity and not view their drought as a great burden. Pirates- 34 yr drought, Rays- never won, Reds-23 yrs, Braves-18 yrs, Indians -65 yrs and A's- 24 yrs. Only the Red Sox and Cardinals fan aren't in a bad drought.

                                If the Mets ever make the playoffs again the sullen Met fan might say that making the playoffs doesn't mean anything, You have to win or the drought continues. It's easy to make the playoffs. 30% of the teams do. They will explain away any sense of satisfaction at having a good year because it simply isn't good enough.
                                Last edited by LI METS FAN; 10-04-2013, 08:24 AM.

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