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  • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Jacob deGrom is the best pitcher in baseball.
    Personally , I still may pick Kershaw over him .The career stats aren’t even close . Doesn’t mean I am bashing Jake . If both ended
    their careers tomorrow , Clayton is in Cooperstown and Jake isn’t .

    I think they are close in age , but look at Kershaw’s career .

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ershcl01.shtml

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mandrake View Post

      Personally , I still may pick Kershaw over him .The career stats aren’t even close . Doesn’t mean I am bashing Jake . If both ended
      their careers tomorrow , Clayton is in Cooperstown and Jake isn’t .

      I think they are close in age , but look at Kershaw’s career .

      https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ershcl01.shtml
      "Is" means present tense.

      Over the past decade, you're correct. Over the past five years, I might just go with Scherzer. At this moment, this year and last, I go with deGrom. All peripherals match last season, except HR/9; but he's still 2nd best in the league there. That's his level of ability now.

      Scherzer had a phenomenal K/9 and K/BB this season. Jake was not very far off that mark in 15% more innings, which narrows the edge. Ryu had a great season, but isn't going to strike out as many, which puts a dent in his "Fangraphs" type stats. You can't argue with what deGrom has done.

      It's a shame we no longer get to see pitchers dominate from wire to wire, but that's how the game is now. Give deGrom a longer leash or a real bullpen and he'd have a lot more wins.

      Last edited by Mongoose; 09-26-2019, 01:00 AM.


      "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

        "Is" means present tense.

        Over the past decade, you're correct. Over the past five years, I might just go with Scherzer. At this moment, this year and last, I go with deGrom. All peripherals match last season, except HR/9; but he's still 2nd best in the league there. That's his level of ability now.

        Scherzer had a phenomenal K/9 and K/BB this season. Jake was not very far off that mark in 15% more innings, which narrows the edge. Ryu had a great season, but isn't going to strike out as many, which puts a dent in his "Fangraphs" type stats. You can't argue with what deGrom has done.

        It's a shame we no longer get to see pitchers dominate from wire to wire, but that's how the game is now. Give deGrom a longer leash or a real bullpen and he'd have a lot more wins.
        Another simply said and true statement.

        When you think about it, coming into pitching later than most, we are in the midst of his brilliant career.
        Kershaw and Scherzer were both drafted in 06. Jake in 10. In pitching years he is still quite young. Lucky for us fans.

        Comment


        • Back to back Cy Young Awards for Jacob deGrom.

          Outstanding!


          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
            Back to back Cy Young Awards for Jacob deGrom.

            Outstanding!
            Outstanding, indeed! Congratulations, deGrom!

            @mandrake--have you drank the kool aid, yet? (A joke referencing a post I made back in August suggesting deGrom might end up winning the Cy Young again this year)

            Comment


            • He has really had an amazing career arc from a 10th round pick in 2010 (Omar) to being added to the 40 man roster in 2013 (Sandy) to avoid being in the rule 5 draft. To 2 Cy Young’s.
              How lucky are we to witness this?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                He has really had an amazing career arc from a 10th round pick in 2010 (Omar) to being added to the 40 man roster in 2013 (Sandy) to avoid being in the rule 5 draft. To 2 Cy Young’s.
                How lucky are we to witness this?
                I think it is really strange that the guy who came out of nowhere for this organization has won ROY and 2 Cy Youngs and gone on to being one of the best pitchers this organization has ever seen while Harvey, Matz, Wheeler have never lived up to their hype and Syndergaard has been up and down. Just goes to show you how dysfunctional this organization is when it comes to assessing talent.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                  I think it is really strange that the guy who came out of nowhere for this organization has won ROY and 2 Cy Youngs and gone on to being one of the best pitchers this organization has ever seen while Harvey, Matz, Wheeler have never lived up to their hype and Syndergaard has been up and down. Just goes to show you how dysfunctional this organization is when it comes to assessing talent.
                  deGrom’s years of hard work have paid off for him and his team. To the extent that the Mets had the sense to hold on to him, well that is the functional part of their assessing talent.

                  Comment


                  • Great for Jake. He deserved it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                      Outstanding, indeed! Congratulations, deGrom!

                      @mandrake--have you drank the kool aid, yet? (A joke referencing a post I made back in August suggesting deGrom might end up winning the Cy Young again this year)
                      Yes I got the joke, even though I really don’t think he deserved it .
                      However I don’t have a vote and I don’t understand the arguments made this season versus his credentials last season etc . Wins no longer matter , ERA does but only when it favors a Met , strike outs are more
                      important sometimes. I guess the Nats pitchers in 2018 and 2019 can take solace that they at least have a WS ring .

                      Now , Mike Trout is the best player in MLB . Period . A definite Hall of famer!!! But, I don’t
                      see him as 2019 AL MVP - he didn’t play the last 3-4 weeks and the Angels were not contenders . Ok , next season Trout is again the best player but should we just hand him the MVP award again before the season starts?

                      Oh-oh, I just noted that the two guys I said
                      didn’t deserve their awards are of the same race . I hope I am not labeled a ‘racist’.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mandrake View Post

                        Yes I got the joke, even though I really don’t think he deserved it .
                        However I don’t have a vote and I don’t understand the arguments made this season versus his credentials last season etc . Wins no longer matter , ERA does but only when it favors a Met , strike outs are more
                        important sometimes. I guess the Nats pitchers in 2018 and 2019 can take solace that they at least have a WS ring .

                        Now , Mike Trout is the best player in MLB . Period . A definite Hall of famer!!! But, I don’t
                        see him as 2019 AL MVP - he didn’t play the last 3-4 weeks and the Angels were not contenders . Ok , next season Trout is again the best player but should we just hand him the MVP award again before the season starts?

                        Oh-oh, I just noted that the two guys I said
                        didn’t deserve their awards are of the same race . I hope I am not labeled a ‘racist’.
                        I completely agree on Trout. That might have been a product of the whole signal stealing.thing in Houston.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mandrake View Post

                          Yes I got the joke, even though I really don’t think he deserved it .
                          However I don’t have a vote and I don’t understand the arguments made this season versus his credentials last season etc . Wins no longer matter , ERA does but only when it favors a Met , strike outs are more
                          important sometimes. I guess the Nats pitchers in 2018 and 2019 can take solace that they at least have a WS ring .

                          Now , Mike Trout is the best player in MLB . Period . A definite Hall of famer!!! But, I don’t
                          see him as 2019 AL MVP - he didn’t play the last 3-4 weeks and the Angels were not contenders . Ok , next season Trout is again the best player but should we just hand him the MVP award again before the season starts?

                          Oh-oh, I just noted that the two guys I said
                          didn’t deserve their awards are of the same race . I hope I am not labeled a ‘racist’.
                          So who deserved the 1984 NL Cy Young Award, Gooden or Sutcliffe?


                          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                            So who deserved the 1984 NL Cy Young Award, Gooden or Sutcliffe?
                            As a Mets fan I wanted Gooden. 24 of 24 voters went to Sutcliffe. His 16-1record in Chicago (20-6 overall) and beating the Mets 3 times probably swayed the voters. I also wanted Seaver over Jenkins in 1971 and Koosman over Jones in 1976.

                            "Seaver’s 289 strikeouts in 1971 went down as the most he ever amassed in a single year. The same is true of the 1.78 ERA and 0.94 WHIP. His 10.2 WAR was topped only once when in 1973 Seaver posted a 10.6 WAR. In that year, Seaver did take home a Cy Young.
                            Much like many pitchers from the past, Seaver often finished what he started. Seaver made 35 starts (along with a single relief appearance) and completed 21 of them. In four of those starts, he picked up a shutout"

                            Tom Seaver also should have won the 1981 Cy Young, IMHO.


                            In 2019 Ryu was 14-5 with a 2.32 era but again, I don't vote.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                              So who deserved the 1984 NL Cy Young Award, Gooden or Sutcliffe?
                              I think that’s a tough one since Sutcliffe spent 36% of that season in the AL. Not his fault he got traded to the NL but that year Gooden really represented the National League from April-September.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mandrake View Post

                                As a Mets fan I wanted Gooden. 24 of 24 voters went to Sutcliffe. His 16-1record in Chicago (20-6 overall) and beating the Mets 3 times probably swayed the voters. I also wanted Seaver over Jenkins in 1971 and Koosman over Jones in 1976.

                                "Seaver’s 289 strikeouts in 1971 went down as the most he ever amassed in a single year. The same is true of the 1.78 ERA and 0.94 WHIP. His 10.2 WAR was topped only once when in 1973 Seaver posted a 10.6 WAR. In that year, Seaver did take home a Cy Young.
                                Much like many pitchers from the past, Seaver often finished what he started. Seaver made 35 starts (along with a single relief appearance) and completed 21 of them. In four of those starts, he picked up a shutout"

                                Tom Seaver also should have won the 1981 Cy Young, IMHO.


                                In 2019 Ryu was 14-5 with a 2.32 era but again, I don't vote.
                                The reason I bring up Gooden and Sutcliffe is, I think Gooden had a much better season. Gooden set a record for FIP in 1984. It remains the second best season FIP in history. If it was voted on today, Gooden would win the Cy Young Award retroactively.

                                Voters pay attention to peripherals now. K/BB, FIP, etc. Scherzer had a better season in that area, but he pitched 35 fewer innings, and deGrom had better counting stats.

                                By the way, Seaver had better peripherals than Jones or Koosman in 1976. He could reasonably have won every year from 1969 to 1977 (except 1972 and 1974).

                                I agree that pitchers should stay in a game if they're cruising in the later innings, but that's just not how it's done anymore.


                                "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                                Comment

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