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2014/15 Mets Offseason Thread

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  • 2014/15 Mets Offseason Thread

    As we're seeing Omar drafted a surprising number of good arms, especially in the later rounds. It also took time for some of his international free agents to blossom but I'd say the Mets are well set as far as pitching is concerned. Harvey and deGrom look like top of the rotation talents. Wheeler has shown that in flashes. Mejia and Familia and Black are power arms. Parnell is coming back. Niese and Gee are solid. Montero and Syndergaard are coming.

    Unfortunately there's a lot of room for improvement elsewhere. Will we see improvement this off-season?

    We will know by the end of this thread.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    As we're seeing Omar drafted a surprising number of good arms, especially in the later rounds. It also took time for some of his international free agents to blossom but I'd say the Mets are well set as far as pitching is concerned. Harvey and deGrom look like top of the rotation talents. Wheeler has shown that in flashes. Mejia and Familia and Black are power arms. Parnell is coming back. Niese and Gee are solid. Montero and Syndergaard are coming.

    Unfortunately there's a lot of room for improvement elsewhere. Will we see improvement this off-season?

    We will know by the end of this thread.
    2014 told us a lot about the talent level of the Mets young players. Should Omar get credit for drafting most of them? Yes. Should Alderson and his staff get credit for retaining them and developing them? Sure, why not? Giving credit is free, so I am all for it!

    The development of the 2014 squad will go a long way towards the success of the 2015 squad. We now know going into the offseason that their strength is young pitching, bullpen and starters. Some of their young position players have shown they can add bench depth at a minimum. They have a good CF for the 1st time in a few years. RF and 3B are set and chances are production will be better next year. C and 1B have worked out nicely and are question marks no longer. That leaves 2B, SS and 1 OF spot to concentrate on. Daniel Murphy is a good ballplayer. He is a .300 hitter and a hustler, I root for guys like him. Wilmer Flores showed signs of his hitting abilities the last month of the season. Could he be a Daniel Murphy type hitter next year? Maybe. Can they go into next year with both playing in the middle of the IF? No Way. den Dekker and Nieuwenhius look like they could fill in for an injured OF'er next year but I think they should set their sights higher on an everyday OF.

    Knowing the Mets MO the past few years and not being under any illusions that things will change. I expect the majority of the following players dealt next year for an OF and possibly a SS or 2B will be Colon, Gee, Niese and/or Murphy. I could see a Montero, Plawecki and/or Syndegard also mentioned a lot this offseason. I think an OF could be landed with some of the above names and the trade off in salary would be equal. The one thing I do like about Alderson over Minaya is he never seems desperate, even when he is. I have much more faith that Sandy will not rush to trade anyone just to make a splash. The Mets will go into this offseason dealing from strength and that can only be a positive.

    Comment


    • #3
      I read this link from Jan 2014 http://www.metstoday.com/9119/13-14-...th-vs-reality/ EXCERPTS

      It’s worth noting that Minaya kept David Wright and Jose Reyes, despite several opportunities to trade them. He is also responsible for drafting Harvey, Dillon Gee, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Jon Niese, Ruben Tejada, Juan Lagares, Bobby Parnell, Daniel Murphy and Josh Satin, as well as acquiring minor leaguers Jeurys Familia, Jenrry Mejia, Wilmer Flores, Cesar Puello, Jacob deGrom, Josh Edgin, Steven Matz, Jeff Walters and Kirk Nieuwenhuis.


      And

      Minaya spent what Jeff and Fred Wilpon gave him to spend. In some cases, Minaya was INSTRUCTED by Jeff to spend on specific free agents — Jason Bay is a prime example

      You mean Jeff meddled?

      Everyone loves to point out the stupidity of the Mets bidding against themselves for Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo, but selectively forget the brilliance of picking up R.A. Dickey, Jose Valentin, Fernando Tatis, Damion Easley, Chad Bradford, Darren Oliver, and Pedro Feliciano (among others) from the scrap heap. In terms of on-field performance, the Pedro Martinez signing wasn’t great, but there’s no denying that it was more of a symbol of the Mets’ intent to win, and it led to the team’s ability to also sign Carlos Beltran and a host of other players (both MLBers and amateurs).


      the Mets won more than they lost from 2005 to 2010 (40 games over .500, in fact — a 506-466 record),

      In four years with Sandy as GM the record is 304 -344 which is exactly 40 games UNDER .500


      So over the last decade. the Mets are 810 wins and 810 losses. An easy 81-81 average. They are 40 games under .500 with Alderson as GM. They were 40 games OVER with Omar.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mandrake View Post
        I read this link from Jan 2014 http://www.metstoday.com/9119/13-14-...th-vs-reality/ EXCERPTS

        It’s worth noting that Minaya kept David Wright and Jose Reyes, despite several opportunities to trade them. He is also responsible for drafting Harvey, Dillon Gee, Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Jon Niese, Ruben Tejada, Juan Lagares, Bobby Parnell, Daniel Murphy and Josh Satin, as well as acquiring minor leaguers Jeurys Familia, Jenrry Mejia, Wilmer Flores, Cesar Puello, Jacob deGrom, Josh Edgin, Steven Matz, Jeff Walters and Kirk Nieuwenhuis.


        And

        Minaya spent what Jeff and Fred Wilpon gave him to spend. In some cases, Minaya was INSTRUCTED by Jeff to spend on specific free agents — Jason Bay is a prime example

        You mean Jeff meddled?

        Everyone loves to point out the stupidity of the Mets bidding against themselves for Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo, but selectively forget the brilliance of picking up R.A. Dickey, Jose Valentin, Fernando Tatis, Damion Easley, Chad Bradford, Darren Oliver, and Pedro Feliciano (among others) from the scrap heap. In terms of on-field performance, the Pedro Martinez signing wasn’t great, but there’s no denying that it was more of a symbol of the Mets’ intent to win, and it led to the team’s ability to also sign Carlos Beltran and a host of other players (both MLBers and amateurs).


        the Mets won more than they lost from 2005 to 2010 (40 games over .500, in fact — a 506-466 record),

        In four years with Sandy as GM the record is 304 -344 which is exactly 40 games UNDER .500


        So over the last decade. the Mets are 810 wins and 810 losses. An easy 81-81 average. They are 40 games under .500 with Alderson as GM. They were 40 games OVER with Omar.

        The Met record is quite the coincidence with Omar vs. Sandy.

        I know a guy that was doing really well the first 5 years of the last decade when he was making 300k a year. Then the economy crashed and he didn't have 300k to spend so now he isn't doing as well as he had to cut back on everything he was doing. His lifestyle changed because of it. Its really funny how that happens. His wife and kids blame him for their change in lifestyle despite the fact his boss is the one that cut his pay. His wife wanted to keep the Mercedes but they only could afford an Accord. The kids are wondering why they don't have the 1000 channel package on Direct TV anymore and only have the basic package. He quickly became the scorn of his own house.

        On a similar note I just cant understand why Alderson cant be 40 over .500 with a $50MM payroll cut. The fans are angry at him and want wins. Doesn't he understand that? Despite its his boss that cut payroll by $50MM I am choosing to blame Alderson.......why not? Its just so much easier to blame him than an owner that cant be moved.

        So lets compare with Omar was working with:

        http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2006.shtml

        Reyes/Wright at their peak. Excellent closer...great pen. Bench depth. Excellent defense. 3 Players with a .900 OPS+. 8 everyday starters with double digit homers. 3 players with 100+ RBI's. 2 15 game winners


        To what Alderson had to work with

        http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2014.shtml

        None of the above - So yeah ...I just don't understand how Sandy cant manage to win games. He just sucks.
        Last edited by Paulypal; 09-29-2014, 11:41 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
          The Met record is quite the coincidence with Omar vs. Sandy.

          I know a guy that was doing really well the first 5 years of the last decade when he was making 300k a year. Then the economy crashed and he didn't have 300k to spend so now he isn't doing as well as he had to cut back on everything he was doing. His lifestyle changed because of it. Its really funny how that happens. His wife and kids blame him for their change in lifestyle despite the fact his boss is the one that cut his pay. His wife wanted to keep the Mercedes but they only could afford an Accord. The kids are wondering why they don't have the 1000 channel package on Direct TV anymore and only have the basic package. He quickly became the scorn of his own house.

          On a similar note I just cant understand why Alderson cant be 40 over .500 with a $50MM payroll cut. The fans are angry at him and want wins. Doesn't he understand that? Despite its his boss that cut payroll by $50MM I am choosing to blame Alderson.......why not? Its just so much easier to blame him than an owner that cant be moved.

          So lets compare with Omar was working with:

          http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2006.shtml

          Reyes/Wright at their peak. Excellent closer...great pen. Bench depth. Excellent defense. 3 Players with a .900 OPS+. 8 everyday starters with double digit homers. 3 players with 100+ RBI's. 2 15 game winners


          To what Alderson had to work with

          http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/2014.shtml

          None of the above - So yeah ...I just don't understand how Sandy cant manage to win games. He just sucks.
          You're right he does suck.

          I would never have traded Pagan or McHugh for the packages he got. I would have signed Jose Abreu for what he paid Granderson. And that's just for starters.


          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
            You're right he does suck.

            I would never have traded Pagan or McHugh for the packages he got. I would have signed Jose Abreu for what he paid Granderson. And that's just for starters.
            Pretty awesome. I don't recall anyone jumping up and down when Pagan was actually traded....nor did anyone know what Abreu was going to be, but keep that 20/20 hindsight alive my man it works every time.

            I didn't want Granderson, but this "I would have signed" is just a bit much. Should the Mets have been in on Abreu? Sure, but things being what they are they weren't.

            I would have picked the right Powerball numbers.....if I knew them.

            Comment


            • #7
              Still with the Angel Pagan kick. Torres may not have been whirlwind but at the time Pagan had pretty much worn out his welcome.

              http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ork-mets-moves

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                Pretty awesome. I don't recall anyone jumping up and down when Pagan was actually traded....nor did anyone know what Abreu was going to be, but keep that 20/20 hindsight alive my man it works every time.

                I didn't want Granderson, but this "I would have signed" is just a bit much. Should the Mets have been in on Abreu? Sure, but things being what they are they weren't.

                I would have picked the right Powerball numbers.....if I knew them.
                Some of us were pushing for Jhonny Peralta BEFORE the season. The idea that Tejada is a real MLB SS at this point is silly. Adding 20 million to the team salary and coming up to the level of Bud's Brewers isn't much to ask for.

                Fred/Jeff have never said there are restrictions. In fact they claim they were 'victims". Shocking considering that if they indeed were victims, then they should be able to spend wildly now that Maddoff is in jail, and they no longer can be victimized by him.

                Yes, I know that is looney....but in a serious vein, Wilpon has never said there are salary caps. We have read Wall Street Journal stories where his loans and refinancing may have a written salary cap written into the loan contracts (in violation of the MLB collective bargaining agreement), but Wilpon has never confirmed this.

                The Wilpons get away with stuff that other MLB owners can't (i.e the McCourts nasty divorce is BAD for baseball, but Hanging with the world's greatest swindler is OK)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                  Still with the Angel Pagan kick. Torres may not have been whirlwind but at the time Pagan had pretty much worn out his welcome.

                  http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ork-mets-moves
                  According to a front office who did not appreciate his talents and hence initiated the pied piper effect, as we can see above. Pagan was a very fun Met to watch, much more fun than several of Aldy guys at the plate and especially on the field. Imagine him and Lagares patroling that outfield?
                  Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  Pretty awesome. I don't recall anyone jumping up and down when Pagan was actually traded....
                  And PP, Radioguys from WFAN were very curious for the swap in age difference when the trade went down. I myself was flabbergasted at the stupidity. Like many of his predictable moves (moving in the fences, Chris Young, Frank Francisco) that Aldy doozy was a loser before it even happened.
                  Last edited by trepye; 09-30-2014, 06:36 AM.
                  :lightbulb:Definition of a homerun: When the baseball gets hit to a DISTANCE that the fielder cannot get it into homeplate before the batter rounds the bases.

                  Associated Press -- Citi Field's smaller dimensions helped opponents more than the New York Mets.
                  Thanks Sandy Alderson.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                    Still with the Angel Pagan kick. Torres may not have been whirlwind but at the time Pagan had pretty much worn out his welcome.

                    http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/stor...ork-mets-moves
                    Everyone forgets that when Pagan was traded the sentiment was "our problem for your problem". Revisionist history is awesome

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                      Some of us were pushing for Jhonny Peralta BEFORE the season. The idea that Tejada is a real MLB SS at this point is silly. Adding 20 million to the team salary and coming up to the level of Bud's Brewers isn't much to ask for.

                      Fred/Jeff have never said there are restrictions. In fact they claim they were 'victims". Shocking considering that if they indeed were victims, then they should be able to spend wildly now that Maddoff is in jail, and they no longer can be victimized by him.

                      Yes, I know that is looney....but in a serious vein, Wilpon has never said there are salary caps. We have read Wall Street Journal stories where his loans and refinancing may have a written salary cap written into the loan contracts (in violation of the MLB collective bargaining agreement), but Wilpon has never confirmed this.

                      The Wilpons get away with stuff that other MLB owners can't (i.e the McCourts nasty divorce is BAD for baseball, but Hanging with the world's greatest swindler is OK)
                      I was all for signing Peralta too. Good offensive SS without having to trade anyone to get him. However, I do not know if he wanted to play for the Mets, If he signed quickly once he saw the contract that was offered and the Mets did not have an opportunity to make a offer. I think they pretty much have a Peralta like guy in Flores now, if that makes everyone feel better.

                      Playing Devils advocate, which I occasionally like to do, It is very possible that the Mets could have been a better team this year with a payroll of about 55 million instead of 80 something million. Add Byrd, Harvey, McHugh, dendekker and Kirk for a full season and subtract Colon, Granderson and C. Young and arguably the team is better.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                        Everyone forgets that when Pagan was traded the sentiment was "our problem for your problem". Revisionist history is awesome
                        Of course if that link would have opened people could have read it for themselves. My bad. The references are to low baseball IQ, baserunning blunders, throwing to the wrong base and perhaps most damning of al,l going from hitting @290 to 260.

                        At any rate the team needs a corner outfielder who is a legit middle of the order hitter. Could Flores or Herrera develop into a SS? Maybe or maybe not. There is a very 80s feel about the rotation, but we have Generation X (or was it K) as the counterpoint. They do need middle of the order bats. Wright was one but hasn't been I years and his trajectory is not up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
                          Of course if that link would have opened people could have read it for themselves. My bad. The references are to low baseball IQ, baserunning blunders, throwing to the wrong base and perhaps most damning of al,l going from hitting @290 to 260.

                          At any rate the team needs a corner outfielder who is a legit middle of the order hitter. Could Flores or Herrera develop into a SS? Maybe or maybe not. There is a very 80s feel about the rotation, but we have Generation X (or was it K) as the counterpoint. They do need middle of the order bats. Wright was one but hasn't been I years and his trajectory is not up.
                          Granted Pagan has been much better with the Giants, but that doesn't mean your getting the same with the Mets. When he was traded nobody on this board said "boo". Now it is the worst trade in baseball history if read the forum. Maybe Pagan changed his attitude and learned his craft. Who knows and at this point who cares? When you feel that the Met version of Pagan makes or breaks the team...you weren't very good.

                          I really think this pitching is head and shoulders above Gen K. I think we have the real deal here, but with out bats its going to be a constant struggle. Wright can no longer be counted on to be a productive part of the lineup. If he bounces back...Great, but we cant pencil him in for .290/25/100 anymore.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1971.shtml

                            http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1972.shtml

                            http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYM/1970.shtml

                            This team reminds me of the early 1970's Mets. Great pitching, crappy hitting. 83 wins a year.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              2004 team batting average .249 71 wins team ERA 4.09
                              2009 team batting average .270 70 wins team ERA 4.45
                              2014 team batting average .239 79 wins team ERA 3.49

                              Retain and develop good pitching. Wouldn't hurt to have some better hitters.

                              Comment

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