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  • Mejia suspended for PED's

    I figured he was going to be lost longer than said for the elbow anyway.. Oh well.

    Are these guys stupid taking what he took? The drug he took is very easily detectable. It is the Ben Johnson drug of the 1988 Olympics, and the same drug Santana was just suspended for.

    There are PED's out there that are very difficult to detect - this is not one of them.

  • #2
    Idiot(s)...

    Leaving aside the fact you shouldn't cheat, that's not even cheating "well."
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
      Idiot(s)...

      Leaving aside the fact you shouldn't cheat, that's not even cheating "well."
      Unfortunately taking PED's is considered cheating in today's sports world, but it shouldn't be.

      I am in a very very small minority with my opinion on subject but I believe that professional athletes should be allowed the use of PED's on some level. Maybe not the level that Bonds was using, but they should be allowed the use of Testesterone on the same level as a patient with "Low T" would be allowed. If for nothing else for the use of recovery which is one the huge benefits of HGH/Roids

      Why?

      Professional athletes give up their body for their job, but yet athletes (especially baseball players) are held to this super high standard. Higher than any other pro sport and much higher than society in general. If you watch TV for more than 5 minutes you will likely see commercials for multiple drugs - depression - pain - blood thinning - birth control - low t, erectile dysfuncton etc etc. We have become such a drug dependent society that there is a pill for everything.

      The American family is this - Dad is on Cialis, Mom is taking Abilify and Zoloft, both kids are on Ritalin because they have been diagnosed with ADHD. All recommended by doctors that get a cut of how much of this "medicine" that they push. You know....drug dealers without the threat of the cops. Yet the dad of this family will be the first to crucify a player taking PED's.

      Yet the athlete is thought of to be a some type of super human - he can get banged around and get banged around and is expected to just bounce back. Meanwhile Mom is running for the Zoloft bottle because Kim Kardashian got into a fight with her sister on their stupid ass show. Something is wrong here.

      Do you know the biggest reason for the drop in offense in MLB? I am going to guess 9 out of 10 will say because of no steroids or the reduction of steroids, and that my friend is a very incorrect answer. The biggest reason for the drop in in offense in MLB is the crack down on amphetamines. Players get worn down and cant bounce back day after day. Its just a fact. YES amphetamines are PED's..no doubt. Yet the players of the 50's 60's 70's are given a complete pass for the use and abuse of these PED's. Why?

      Because if you want to start tossing names around like Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Robinson as PED users that is a road that MLB doesn't want to go down. So lets bury the fact that players "cheated" by todays standards, and we will celebrate Mays, Mantle, Aaron, and Robinson until the cows come home.

      Another lie the public has been fed and bought hook line and sinker is the health risks of steroids. Yes there are risks taking any drug especially if its abused. Have you ever listened to the possible side effects of any of the medications sold on TV? Suicide, stroke, internal bleeding, heart attack to name a few.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think amphetamine usage is:

        1. Not quite on par with "today's" PEDs (and that's a fuzzy line, to be fair, but I think most could agree there's some level of difference...if pressed, I'd say being more "awake"--better way to describe greenies, I know, I'll assume you know what I mean where words fail me--isn't quite the same as Sammy Sosa going from 8 HRs to 60+ in three seasons...a "more awake" 8 HR hitter isn't going to suddenly become Superman, whereas Sosa did with the help of steroids. Again, I agree that's a fuzzy line, but I also think that that line is still there, between being a "more awake" mediocre player and going from so-so to Supper Sosa.)

        2. In an odd way, somewhat analogous to gambling on baseball pre-Black Sox or being racist in the game pre-Jackie Robinson. Tris Speaker, if I recall, gambled, and he's in the Hall. It wasn't unheard of at all before the Black Sox threw the Series, and then the nation evolved and the standard changed. Same thing with being racist in the game obviously VERY widespread in the game, and if we eliminated all the racists from the Hall, we'd have very few in there pre-Jackie (which isn't at all to say it went away after him--it still hasn't...there's some truth to the idea that where the great "social tension" of a lot of British novels is class/wealth/position, that "social tension" in American lit and society is race/religion/diversity--but simply to say what was accepted behavior pre-1947 wasn't afterwards and definitely isn't now.) A gambler TODAY, even with immense talent and great stats, would find it extremely difficult to get into the Hall--ask Pete Rose (though I'm not sure whether Rose should be allowed in or not, I can see both sides...maybe...but that's another story, point is, a gambler in 2015 faces different standards than a gambler in 1915.) An open racist today would have the same problems. If Ty Cobb played today, with his racism and all, he would NOT get into the Hall of Fame, period. That's not even a statement about whether he should on the merits of his world-beating numbers or not, just an acknowledgement that writers induct players...

        And with writers being so punitive on McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Palmiero and others for PED use, open racism would ensure you not get to 75% at all.

        So it goes with amphetamine use. Just because we allowed it then doesn't mean we allowed it now. I wouldn't retroactively kick Cobb, Mays, Mantle, or any racist/amphetamine user...both were products of their time. The argument then becomes, naturally, when baseball started banning substances falls after a lot of guys started using...and frankly, if a guy used in, say, 1989 but wasn't after drug testing began, and they DIDN'T have a so-so-to-Sosa spike in their numbers suggesting to me their greatness was the product of the PEDs, I MIGHT consider voting for them for the Hall for the same reason, if I could vote. It was a different time, standards change, so yes, if you're not going to kick out Cobb for racial standards today or Mantle or Mays for our attitude towards amphetamines today, it's not fair to kick out users who used when it first began and baseball had no policy or stance against it.

        ...THAT being said...given that Bonds' head kept growing...and growing...and growing...and so did his numbers as he became an aging ballplayer, against all logic...

        THAT is someone who's still cheating long past the point where it stopped being part of the "standard" of the times, and THEN you can label that person a cheater, the same way you can label today someone doing and saying what Cobb did a racist or say that gambling on the game is wrong now when in Speaker's day it was more commonplace.

        I can agree somewhat in that I'm not sure I'd mind amphetamine use that much...frankly, given that 1. Irreproachable Hall of Famers ALREADY have used them and 2. They're less damaging to the record books and arguably the history and integrity of the game (such as it is) than HGH or that instant-muscle-juice Sosa was pumping into his body, if we "had" to have performance enhancers, I'd rather greenies than HGH. I don't want either now, but at least greenies have "history" and don't ruin history (as much.)
        "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
          I think amphetamine usage is:

          1. Not quite on par with "today's" PEDs (and that's a fuzzy line, to be fair, but I think most could agree there's some level of difference...if pressed, I'd say being more "awake"--better way to describe greenies, I know, I'll assume you know what I mean where words fail me--isn't quite the same as Sammy Sosa going from 8 HRs to 60+ in three seasons...a "more awake" 8 HR hitter isn't going to suddenly become Superman, whereas Sosa did with the help of steroids. Again, I agree that's a fuzzy line, but I also think that that line is still there, between being a "more awake" mediocre player and going from so-so to Supper Sosa.)

          2. In an odd way, somewhat analogous to gambling on baseball pre-Black Sox or being racist in the game pre-Jackie Robinson. Tris Speaker, if I recall, gambled, and he's in the Hall. It wasn't unheard of at all before the Black Sox threw the Series, and then the nation evolved and the standard changed. Same thing with being racist in the game obviously VERY widespread in the game, and if we eliminated all the racists from the Hall, we'd have very few in there pre-Jackie (which isn't at all to say it went away after him--it still hasn't...there's some truth to the idea that where the great "social tension" of a lot of British novels is class/wealth/position, that "social tension" in American lit and society is race/religion/diversity--but simply to say what was accepted behavior pre-1947 wasn't afterwards and definitely isn't now.) A gambler TODAY, even with immense talent and great stats, would find it extremely difficult to get into the Hall--ask Pete Rose (though I'm not sure whether Rose should be allowed in or not, I can see both sides...maybe...but that's another story, point is, a gambler in 2015 faces different standards than a gambler in 1915.) An open racist today would have the same problems. If Ty Cobb played today, with his racism and all, he would NOT get into the Hall of Fame, period. That's not even a statement about whether he should on the merits of his world-beating numbers or not, just an acknowledgement that writers induct players...

          And with writers being so punitive on McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Palmiero and others for PED use, open racism would ensure you not get to 75% at all.

          So it goes with amphetamine use. Just because we allowed it then doesn't mean we allowed it now. I wouldn't retroactively kick Cobb, Mays, Mantle, or any racist/amphetamine user...both were products of their time. The argument then becomes, naturally, when baseball started banning substances falls after a lot of guys started using...and frankly, if a guy used in, say, 1989 but wasn't after drug testing began, and they DIDN'T have a so-so-to-Sosa spike in their numbers suggesting to me their greatness was the product of the PEDs, I MIGHT consider voting for them for the Hall for the same reason, if I could vote. It was a different time, standards change, so yes, if you're not going to kick out Cobb for racial standards today or Mantle or Mays for our attitude towards amphetamines today, it's not fair to kick out users who used when it first began and baseball had no policy or stance against it.

          ...THAT being said...given that Bonds' head kept growing...and growing...and growing...and so did his numbers as he became an aging ballplayer, against all logic...

          THAT is someone who's still cheating long past the point where it stopped being part of the "standard" of the times, and THEN you can label that person a cheater, the same way you can label today someone doing and saying what Cobb did a racist or say that gambling on the game is wrong now when in Speaker's day it was more commonplace.

          I can agree somewhat in that I'm not sure I'd mind amphetamine use that much...frankly, given that 1. Irreproachable Hall of Famers ALREADY have used them and 2. They're less damaging to the record books and arguably the history and integrity of the game (such as it is) than HGH or that instant-muscle-juice Sosa was pumping into his body, if we "had" to have performance enhancers, I'd rather greenies than HGH. I don't want either now, but at least greenies have "history" and don't ruin history (as much.)
          Nope not on the same level, but if you murder someone and someone else robs a bank you both go to jail. Somehow we justify cheating by level of cheating that it is.

          "Well cheating this way isn't as bad as cheating that way so we can forgive you" That is complete B.S.

          No amphets are not roids but there is no doubt that they are performance enhancing otherwise the players wouldn't have taken them for 40 years. Yes the make you super awake and super alert --- something that the player would not be naturally. So doesn't that enhance performance? It is so crystal clear but people try to fog it up to justify the hanging of the steroids users and keep Mays out of the conversation.

          I completely disagree with your assessment. Players need to be judged by what they did on the field. ALL OF THEM.

          Also lets not forget that MLB looked the other way for 20 years on PED use. They knew what was going on but the homers were good for business, and lets not forget that's exactly what baseball is.

          Comment

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