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  • Originally posted by ipitch View Post
    Hosmer didn't get a good jump as it was. He was pretty darn close to the base. He may have ran no matter who fielded the ball.
    [ATTACH]150903[/ATTACH]
    If the correct play is made he holds the bag and cant run. Hosmer took a huge chance by going as it was even with that 10 foot jump. Duda would have had him by a mile if that throw was accurate. Then Hosmer would have been answering questions for his stupid base running blunder.

    Instead Joe Buck says "great baserunning".

    That picture just shows me how bad of a play Wright made.

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    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
      Well that leads me to my other point. How David Wright F'd that play up from the get go.

      The correct play is the shortstop takes that ball. Infield in and David Wright is shifted almost friggin next to Flores, He has to know where he is.

      The ball gets hit and Flores fields it....David Wright covers 3rd base. This forces Hosmer to hold the bag and not get any jump off of 3rd base. NONE. Then he cant run on the throw to first.

      I didnt have to make that throw - although I would bet I dont use the on deck circle as my cut off man if I am making the throw - Duda had to make that throw.

      The runner is supposedly holding? So Duda assumes the runner is holding? No - he assumes the runner is going is what he should be doing and if he is not then he eats the ball as he is running towards the plate calling time. Thats the play.

      Case in point that if Duda was caught by surprise after David Wright could not hold the runner to the bag then Duda doesnt belong on the field. Which apparently he didnt belong.
      I understand that you are focusing on this play, and rightly so b/c it contains two defensive lapses. But also consider that you have to credit Hosmer for recognizing the situation and dashing home. Do you think there are a lot of players who would have done what Hosmer did in that spot? It was a risky play that turned out for KC. As you say, if Duda makes a good throw . . . but one reason he makes a bad throw is that he is caught by surprise and panics. The Royals forced Duda's hand and he cracked.

      One reason others have focused on Collins/Harvey is that KC didn't force anyone's hand in that spot. Collins had a plan going into the game, and Harvey was at 102 pitches after 8. Harvey did the job he had been asked to do at the start of the game. Then Collins let himself be talked into putting Harvey in a situation where Harvey's effectiveness traditionally declines. At the very least, he should have yanked Harvey after the Cain walk. I think most people expected that, even though he had handled Hosmer in he earlier ABs. Even then, there are no guarantees, but the manager's job is to put the team in the best position to win.
      Last edited by EasilyFound; 11-03-2015, 11:35 AM.

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      • Originally posted by ipitch View Post
        No matter how well a pitcher pitches the ball, the batters (and umpires) will have something to do with the results.
        What? If the pitcher throws quality pitches batters will mostly miss or not hit balls hard. Umpires will call balls and strikes correctly the overwhelming majority of the time. I see no point?

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        • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
          I understand that you are focusing on this play, and rightly so b/c it contains two defensive lapses. But also consider that you have to credit Hosmer for recognizing the situation and dashing home. Do you think there are a lot of players who would have done what Hosmer did in that spot? It was a risky play that turned out for KC. As you say, if Duda makes a good throw . . . but one reason he makes a bad throw is that he is caught by surprise and panics. The Royals forced Duda's hand and he cracked.

          One reason others have focused on Collins/Harvey is that KC didn't force anyone's hand in that spot. Collins had a plan going into the game, and Harvey was at 102 pitches after 8. Harvey did the job he had been asked to do at the start of the game. Then Collins let himself be talked into putting Harvey in a situation where Harvey's effectiveness traditionally declines. At the very least, he should have yanked Harvey after the Cain walk. I think most people expected that, even though he had handled Hosmer in he earlier ABs. Even then, there are no guarantees, but the manager's job is to put the team in the best position to win.
          As far Collins/Harvey I get what your saying and I think its a valid argument. I can see both sides for sure. I am just not going to kill anyone on it. Thats just me, and as you know I am not a big fan of Harvey, but I get both his position as well as Collins. Was it a mistake? Yes it turned out that way for sure. Sometimes plans dont work out. Game 1 the plan was to have the lead and give the ball to Familia - 450 feet later that plan didnt work. Not killing Familia because I always feel "baseball happens". Nobody killed Familia for being more concerned about a quick pitch than throwing an effective pitch. It happens.

          I am focusing on the defensive lapse that not one Met player had, but two within seconds of each other.

          I actually dont credit Hosmer for a good play. If he gets nailed like he should have by any major league firstbasemen he is the absolute goat of that game. Yes it worked out for Hosmer and the Royals but it was stupid play. I dont credit Hosmer I discredit the Met defenders for 1) being out of position and 2) allowing yourself to be caught off guard in game 5 of a WS game in the 9th inning when your team can get eliminated. Actually I dont even think Duda was that off guard as the throw would have beaten Hosmer by 10 feet had it not been bouncing off the back wall.

          Many will argue that it was a good play by Hosmer, but the only way your going to be safe is if you get an errant throw because there is no chance of beating the play at the plate with a good one. Is that a good chance or play? Well most will say it worked so it is a good play. I guess I cant argue the results because I just watched some of the parade on the MLB Network, but a good play in my opinion is when you have a legitimate chance to make it. He didnt - the throw just sucked.
          Last edited by Paulypal; 11-03-2015, 12:00 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
            What? If the pitcher throws quality pitches batters will mostly miss or not hit balls hard.
            The key word is mostly. That means even you know that pitching well depends on how well the batters do. Baseball is not darts. A dart player can only blame himself if he misses. A baseball pitcher can do everything perfect and get a bad result. As long as a pitch is in or near the strike zone, it can always be hit hard.

            102 mph pitches have been hit for doubles and HRs. Mariano Rivera's cutter has been hit for a HR, even when it moved like it usually did, and when it wasn't even a strike. Pitchers will tell you that they "didn't have great stuff" even when they pitched well, or vice versa.

            Think about batting practice. Every pitch is pretty much a ~60 mph fastball with little movement. What do the batters do with those BP pitches? They hit HRs, line drives, pop-ups, ground balls, foul balls, the occasional swing and miss, etc. This means it's obvious that the same thing will happen with actual game pitches.

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            • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              If the correct play is made he holds the bag and cant run.
              Nonsense. Do runners on 1B hold the base when the pitcher has the ball and might throw over? No. They're usually off the base ~10', just like Hosmer was about 10' off 3B.

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              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                I actually dont credit Hosmer for a good play. If he gets nailed like he should have by any major league firstbasemen he is the absolute goat of that game. Yes it worked out for Hosmer and the Royals but it was stupid play.
                Statistically, a runner has, on avg, a 26% chance of scoring from third with two outs. How often do you think Duda makes a bad throw in that situation? One out of four? More? Less?

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                • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
                  Statistically, a runner has, on avg, a 26% chance of scoring from third with two outs. How often do you think Duda makes a bad throw in that situation? One out of four? More? Less?
                  Duda should make that throw 95% of the time. Its an 85 foot throw and he is a major league player. As you can see the ball is about to be caught by Travis and Hosmer is dead meat. Now picture that throw in from of Travis where it should be and its even worse. If your out by that much its not a good play. It worked but the 26% chance was better.


                  Screenshot (4).png
                  Last edited by Paulypal; 11-03-2015, 01:30 PM.

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                  • My other point is this. Look where Wright fields that ball.
                    Attached Files

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                    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                      Everyone is pointing at Collins and Harvey and trying gauge the blame. Actually it was a combination of David Wright and Lucas Duda who blew the play on the tying run. I dont understand how that is getting glossed over.

                      I guess its easier and maybe more fun to hammer the manager.
                      I agree--as I've said numerous times, they were in a lose-lose situation with Harvey vs. the Bullpen...and for his part, at least Harvey gave 8 Amazin' innings before that, hard to be mad at him, or blame Terry for an impossible choice.

                      Duda blew that throw completely.

                      BUT Harvey sells papers and gets clicks, and roasting the coach is a time-"honored" tradition, so...................
                      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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                      • Now that KC's parade is over- I wonder what the WS player shares are? Could be a big windfall for our league minimum guys.

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                        • Had three different professors I know well share their reactions to the World Series, all knowing my devotion to the Orange and Blue

                          Joyce Professor: I HEARD the Mets lost...

                          Austen Professor: Oh, that 12th inning was brutal! Just brutal! (She's from and flying back to New York...perhaps to grieve, I don't know.)

                          Dickens Professor: *Mimes Daniel Murphy missing the ball* Even I could've caught that!

                          And that last professor doesn't even like baseball, didn't even have business with her today, just happened to see her and she KNEW...and was ready...

                          At least I know which of them secretly hates me most.
                          "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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