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  • #46
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Seth Lugo - dead arm. Potential DL -- the beat goes on
    So he can go on the 10 day DL and Montero can stay on the roster. Sounds like a plan.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
      So he can go on the 10 day DL and Montero can stay on the roster. Sounds like a plan.
      Time for a new plan?

      I love how "dead arm" which is not a big deal goes to UCL tear.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
        Time for a new plan?

        I love how "dead arm" which is not a big deal goes to UCL tear.
        I don't get the pitching injuries . Seaver/Kooz/Ryan/Gentry/Matlack - only Gary had major arm issues .

        Gooden, Sid, Ojeda, Darling , etc - pretty healthy.

        When does Noah get hurt ?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by mandrake View Post
          I don't get the pitching injuries . Seaver/Kooz/Ryan/Gentry/Matlack - only Gary had major arm issues .

          Gooden, Sid, Ojeda, Darling , etc - pretty healthy.

          When does Noah get hurt ?
          If Ken Burns does an Eleventh Inning for his "Baseball" documentary series someday, and tries to tie this all into America in general (as he tries to do throughout that whole 20-hour epic) he'll tie pitching coaches and teams demanding more and more of their young fireballers with people demanding more and more now--and neither prepared to deal with the consequences of asking for so much so soon.

          As Keith Olbermann used to put it in a segment once, decades ago pitchers didn't go all out on every pitch the way they do today--you were supposed to "pace yourself" more and "leave something for later." Not today. 95+ on every fastball you throw or else. Maybe if guys weren't constantly doing that they'd wouldn't constantly be tearing this and inflaming that. On the OTHER hand, to cite another Olberemann segment (yeah, I liked his ESPN show, sue me ) who knows--with the medical knowledge and surgeries we have today, maybe pitchers like Sandy Koufax wouldn't have been lost so early. We have so many treatments nowadays, whatever the problem was then, there's probably a treatment for it now...

          Take a year off, let the talking heads debate your effectiveness when you come back, leave fans hoping and praying--and boom, back on the mound. So you win some, you lose some.
          "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
            If Ken Burns does an Eleventh Inning for his "Baseball" documentary series someday, and tries to tie this all into America in general (as he tries to do throughout that whole 20-hour epic) he'll tie pitching coaches and teams demanding more and more of their young fireballers with people demanding more and more now--and neither prepared to deal with the consequences of asking for so much so soon.

            As Keith Olbermann used to put it in a segment once, decades ago pitchers didn't go all out on every pitch the way they do today--you were supposed to "pace yourself" more and "leave something for later." Not today. 95+ on every fastball you throw or else. Maybe if guys weren't constantly doing that they'd wouldn't constantly be tearing this and inflaming that. On the OTHER hand, to cite another Olberemann segment (yeah, I liked his ESPN show, sue me ) who knows--with the medical knowledge and surgeries we have today, maybe pitchers like Sandy Koufax wouldn't have been lost so early. We have so many treatments nowadays, whatever the problem was then, there's probably a treatment for it now...

            Take a year off, let the talking heads debate your effectiveness when you come back, leave fans hoping and praying--and boom, back on the mound. So you win some, you lose some.
            No doubt about Sandy Koufax.

            How do we explain Warren Spahn, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal etc. ?

            The Mets 1969 staff (exception Gentry) remained incredible healthy and ended up with well over 1000 career wins. Gil Hodges and Rube Walker must have been magicians.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by mandrake View Post
              No doubt about Sandy Koufax.

              How do we explain Warren Spahn, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Ferguson Jenkins, Juan Marichal etc. ?

              The Mets 1969 staff (exception Gentry) remained incredible healthy and ended up with well over 1000 career wins. Gil Hodges and Rube Walker must have been magicians.
              I think a lot goes back to the point that most athletes prior to the past 20 years were mostly multi sport athletes that didn't throw 11 months (at least) out of the year.

              The elbow issues (I believe) don't happen all of a sudden. Its a accumulation injury that starts at a very young age and then it gives after a decade + of abuse. Every name mentioned above with exception of Marichal (maybe) was a multi sport athlete and they weren't throwing all year round.

              Now between spring/summer/fall/tournaments/travel/showcases they have 13 year old kids throwing constantly. Between the parents who want to be the parent of the next Maddux, and the coach who wants to coach the next Maddux - the kids get the ass end of it in the long run.

              To me that explanation makes the most sense as to why arm injuries are so prevalent nowadays. They can talk about pitch counts, innings limits all they want. The damage is done before it ever gets to that point.

              Imagine stressing you ligaments and tendons constantly all year round with a non natural motion without them ever getting enough rest to heal. Yeah its fine when your 15,16,17,18. Then you get bigger and stronger and can throw harder - the stress increases on an already stressed tendon/ligament and poof. Here comes Dr Andrews.

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              • #52
                So, one game played, three pitchers down. At this rate...
                They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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                • #53
                  Pauly, throw in the insane amount these pitchers throw in high school and college and the constant emphasis on speed, speed, speed instead of teaching the "Art and Science" of pitching and you have the issue. Question is, what's the answer? Incidentally, read somewhere that some high schoolers are actually getting TJ surgery BEFORE college so they can start fresh.

                  Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  I think a lot goes back to the point that most athletes prior to the past 20 years were mostly multi sport athletes that didn't throw 11 months (at least) out of the year.

                  The elbow issues (I believe) don't happen all of a sudden. Its a accumulation injury that starts at a very young age and then it gives after a decade + of abuse. Every name mentioned above with exception of Marichal (maybe) was a multi sport athlete and they weren't throwing all year round.

                  Now between spring/summer/fall/tournaments/travel/showcases they have 13 year old kids throwing constantly. Between the parents who want to be the parent of the next Maddux, and the coach who wants to coach the next Maddux - the kids get the ass end of it in the long run.

                  To me that explanation makes the most sense as to why arm injuries are so prevalent nowadays. They can talk about pitch counts, innings limits all they want. The damage is done before it ever gets to that point.

                  Imagine stressing you ligaments and tendons constantly all year round with a non natural motion without them ever getting enough rest to heal. Yeah its fine when your 15,16,17,18. Then you get bigger and stronger and can throw harder - the stress increases on an already stressed tendon/ligament and poof. Here comes Dr Andrews.
                  North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by brooklynboy View Post
                    Pauly, throw in the insane amount these pitchers throw in high school and college and the constant emphasis on speed, speed, speed instead of teaching the "Art and Science" of pitching and you have the issue. Question is, what's the answer? Incidentally, read somewhere that some high schoolers are actually getting TJ surgery BEFORE college so they can start fresh.
                    As long as College an ML scouts keep drafting big kids and putting an emphasis on size and speed over pitching knowledge and control it will only get worse. There are still some Dinosaur coaches left in high school and travel ball but we all know what happens to dinosaurs after time.

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                    • #55
                      Tough start for Wheeler but it may take him 3 or 4 more starts to get back in the swing of his old ways. NY is a tough place to play.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        As long as TJ surgery is common place and teams will pay big bucks for heat, we will see injuries to pitchers at all levels and yea there are very few dinosaurs around and getting fewer as we speak.
                        North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                          Tough start for Wheeler but it may take him 3 or 4 more starts to get back in the swing of his old ways. NY is a tough place to play.

                          I do't think the Zach you are talking about will be back after 3 or 4 starts..
                          North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

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                          • #58
                            deGrom's 13 k's were great tonight. Wish he could pitch into the 8th or 9th though.

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                            • #59
                              Oops, especially with Yelich tying the game.

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                              • #60
                                Syndergaard, deGrom and now Harvey with three good starts in a row.

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