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2016-17 Mets Offseason Thread

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  • 2016-17 Mets Offseason Thread

    I would have preferred to have started this thread a few weeks later.

    The Mets have some big decisions to make. Most of us know what they are. Even if they re-sign Cespedes they'll remain status quo, which isn't good enough.

    The pitching staff is a huge question mark.

    I wonder what moves and non-moves we'll see?


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  • #2
    The biggest "moves" will be how Harvey, Matz, DeGrom, Wheeler and even Noah, if it comes to that, recover form their injuries and/or surgeries.

    Beyond that every position is a question mark isn't it? Catcher - D'Arnaud inspires no confidence and Rivera is a good backup defensive catcher; 1B - is Loney signed beyond this year? I doubt it. Even so, is that the best we can do? He is not young. Duda is big bag of meh. As a 6-7 hitter OK, but with this team that is not happening. 2B, SS, 3B - Walker, Cabrera and Reyes all outperformed my expectations. I think only Cabrera is under contract for next year, but I really skim over contract stuff in the papers a lot. Can Flores stay healthy? TJ Rivera, looks solid at the plate but we can all come up with examples of guys that did not take that next step; such as LF - Conforto - please just let this be some injury effect and not MLB catching on and him not adjusting; Cespedes - he needs to be back; CF/RF - Granderson and Bruce - whatta catch by Granderson, that was the one moment that got me "out of my seat" last night other than to groan as the ball sailed over the fence off the bat of a player whose name I already have forgotten. Nonetheless, they are not long term pieces. Lagares - who? is pretty much where he has fallen.

    My goodness that seems like an awful negative take for a team that made the postseason in its sport.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
      The biggest "moves" will be how Harvey, Matz, DeGrom, Wheeler and even Noah, if it comes to that, recover form their injuries and/or surgeries.

      Beyond that every position is a question mark isn't it? Catcher - D'Arnaud inspires no confidence and Rivera is a good backup defensive catcher; 1B - is Loney signed beyond this year? I doubt it. Even so, is that the best we can do? He is not young. Duda is big bag of meh. As a 6-7 hitter OK, but with this team that is not happening. 2B, SS, 3B - Walker, Cabrera and Reyes all outperformed my expectations. I think only Cabrera is under contract for next year, but I really skim over contract stuff in the papers a lot. Can Flores stay healthy? TJ Rivera, looks solid at the plate but we can all come up with examples of guys that did not take that next step; such as LF - Conforto - please just let this be some injury effect and not MLB catching on and him not adjusting; Cespedes - he needs to be back; CF/RF - Granderson and Bruce - whatta catch by Granderson, that was the one moment that got me "out of my seat" last night other than to groan as the ball sailed over the fence off the bat of a player whose name I already have forgotten. Nonetheless, they are not long term pieces. Lagares - who? is pretty much where he has fallen.

      My goodness that seems like an awful negative take for a team that made the postseason in its sport.
      I think there will be a lot of question marks that will take time to answer. A ridiculous amount of talent at the SP position but who will be healthy?

      IF- I think they need to do better at 1st and 3rd. I will be happy with Cabrera at SS. I am not sure if Walker will be back at 2B. Flores is a perfect utility player. I think they can do better than Flores at any position they may be able to pencil him in at on a full time basis. Wright? How can anyone expect him to be healthy next year? Is Reyes good insurance? I would love to finally get a good well rounded 1st baseman next year. Not sure who is available but that is the one position that an upgrade of would really help the team.

      OF- Cespedes has to come back. Granderson/Lagares platoon in CF would be fine with me. Another year of Bruce? I am not sure yet. Can Conforto play RF? Is it fair for him to be a 5th OF? Could Conforto, a pitcher and a high level prospect get a all star 1st baseman?

      C- Is darnaud tradable? Can Plawecki be an everyday catcher. I do think Riveria is a good backup.


      I think we will have a lot to discuss/argue/attack each other over the next few months! I do not think it is all gloom and doom and they definitely should be in a position next year to compete for a division title, not a wildcard.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
        I think there will be a lot of question marks that will take time to answer. A ridiculous amount of talent at the SP position but who will be healthy?

        IF- I think they need to do better at 1st and 3rd. I will be happy with Cabrera at SS. I am not sure if Walker will be back at 2B. Flores is a perfect utility player. I think they can do better than Flores at any position they may be able to pencil him in at on a full time basis. Wright? How can anyone expect him to be healthy next year? Is Reyes good insurance? I would love to finally get a good well rounded 1st baseman next year. Not sure who is available but that is the one position that an upgrade of would really help the team.

        OF- Cespedes has to come back. Granderson/Lagares platoon in CF would be fine with me. Another year of Bruce? I am not sure yet. Can Conforto play RF? Is it fair for him to be a 5th OF? Could Conforto, a pitcher and a high level prospect get a all star 1st baseman?

        C- Is darnaud tradable? Can Plawecki be an everyday catcher. I do think Riveria is a good backup.


        I think we will have a lot to discuss/argue/attack each other over the next few months! I do not think it is all gloom and doom and they definitely should be in a position next year to compete for a division title, not a wildcard.
        I agree the division title is the goal, but they have a lot of work to do to get that done.

        Do they resign Cespedes after he opts out?...............and he will

        Right now if you look at that team its just a mess. The fact they made the playoffs (sort of) is amazing. Going into the off season with all these question marks about the pitching leaves them in a very bad spot. Who is trade bait? What value do you get back for a banged up pitcher? Point is I am not sure they have the same opportunity that they had last year with the option of upgrading via trading a pitcher. Now they didn't take advantage of it last year but it was there. Basically you have to play wait and see with the pitching....I think.

        As far as the field goes as well as the lineup.... Same Old Story. A very less than lineup.

        We go into 2017 again counting on Granderson to produce?
        Again we have to wonder about Conforto.
        Do you take a shot with Walker and his back?
        How do you fill 3rd base with Wright just about done? Is Flores and option?
        Is Loney the answer at 1st base or do you go back to Lucas Dud (a)? OR do you sign someone? ---who I don't know
        Cabrera was good but can you expect it again?
        Catcher? - Yuck all around. Do they wait again for dArnaud to emerge? Can they live with Suckwecki?
        Jay Bruce is going to be here - get use to it.
        Is Familia the closer you want in big games?

        Of course the 800pd gorilla in the room is as I mentioned above....what happens after Cespedes opts out. If anyone thinks he isn't opting out because he loves NY so much don't kid yourself. He is opting out. I would be more than surprised if he didn't. Actually he would be really stupid not to. REALLY stupid. This is a very weak FA market, and he would be a crowned jewel in the market. I believe this was the strategy all along by Cespedes and his agent. There were a few OF'er last year that were clogging the market. Not this year.

        I could be wrong about the opt out, but if he were my client or I was Cespedes I would opt out today.

        In 2015/2016 the Mets made it to the post season with the over achieving at the right time. That doesn't happen once to some teams - to the Mets it happened twice in a row. It can not and should not be counted on again.

        Going into the off season with a battered pitching staff is really hindering what the Mets can do this off season.
        Last edited by Paulypal; 10-06-2016, 06:42 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's crazy right? Despite all of the above, they made the wild card and nearly won 90 games.

          Comment


          • #6
            If d'Arnaud isn't the right fit- Wilson Ramos is a free agent, assuming he recovers from ACL surgery. Brian McCann could work. The Yankees are going to eat a good part of his salary in order to get rid of him anyway. Maybe they'd take Gsellman for him. Their pitching needs some sort of an upgrade.

            But as much fun as the anticipation of the playoffs was, I agree with RJ- you've got to win the division not the WC. The worst team in baseball could win that game with a pitcher having the game of their life.

            Comment


            • #7
              Right on cue:

              According to Adam Rubin of ESPN New York, the Mets "fully expect" Yoenis Cespedes to opt out of his contract and test the free agent market.
              Cespedes has two years and around $47.5 million remaining on the deal he signed last offseason -- a deal that contains an opt-out clause he can exercise five days after the World Series. Cespedes will probably double that dollar figure this winter in one of the weakest free agent classes in recent memory. He went 0-for-4 with two strikeouts in Wednesday's Wild Card Game loss to the Giants, but the Mets only collected four hits as a team against Madison Bumgarner. Cespedes, 30, batted .280/.354/.530 with 31 home runs and 86 RBI in 132 games during the regular season. He finished with a career-high .884 OPS.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                Right on cue:

                According to Adam Rubin of ESPN New York, the Mets "fully expect" Yoenis Cespedes to opt out of his contract and test the free agent market.
                Cespedes has two years and around $47.5 million remaining on the deal he signed last offseason -- a deal that contains an opt-out clause he can exercise five days after the World Series. Cespedes will probably double that dollar figure this winter in one of the weakest free agent classes in recent memory. He went 0-for-4 with two strikeouts in Wednesday's Wild Card Game loss to the Giants, but the Mets only collected four hits as a team against Madison Bumgarner. Cespedes, 30, batted .280/.354/.530 with 31 home runs and 86 RBI in 132 games during the regular season. He finished with a career-high .884 OPS.
                If the Mets don't fully expect that, well THAT would be news.

                Can't see Adam Rubin saying Mets expect that Cespedes agents will ignore the opt out clause that the team put in the contract they agreed to.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                  If the Mets don't fully expect that, well THAT would be news.

                  Can't see Adam Rubin saying Mets expect that Cespedes agents will ignore the opt out clause that the team put in the contract they agreed to.
                  Agreed, but how often have we heard "he like it here and he may not opt out" --- or "if he opts out". We have read it here and I have heard it also.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We'd need to know how much underperformance was injury related, to make informed speculations.

                    I'm pretty sure d'Arnaud, Conforto, Duda (this year and last), Lagares (they should finally let him get arm surgery) would have been better if healthy. The team is not transparent about injuries. If they're healthy it would solve some problems.

                    Either way, d'Arnaud should change positions. Other than as a "replacement" for Cespedes, getting Bruce made no sense. Lucroy was needed. Ramos is best available free agent, but is injured a lot and is coming off a career year and might regress going forward.

                    I'd sell high on Cabrera as part of a package to help fill the catcher role. I think Justin Turner would be a good signing. Turner, Reyes at SS and Wilmer at 2B is a good offensive IF. If not I'd let Wilmer start at 3B, let T.J. handle 2B, put Jose back at SS. Rosario might be ready before the end of next season.

                    I was saying last off-season Mets needed to fortify the bullpen. Just sign Chapman. He and Familia can be used as closers situationally. It worked with Orosco and McDowell.

                    Haven't really looked at whole list of available free agents.


                    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ..........
                      Last edited by Mister B.; 10-06-2016, 09:28 AM. Reason: Posted in wrong thread

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                        If d'Arnaud isn't the right fit- Wilson Ramos is a free agent, assuming he recovers from ACL surgery. Brian McCann could work. The Yankees are going to eat a good part of his salary in order to get rid of him anyway. Maybe they'd take Gsellman for him. Their pitching needs some sort of an upgrade.

                        But as much fun as the anticipation of the playoffs was, I agree with RJ- you've got to win the division not the WC. The worst team in baseball could win that game with a pitcher having the game of their life.
                        I wouldn't give up Gsellman for an over the hill part time catcher like McCann. Lugo, possibly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                          We go into 2017 again counting on Granderson to produce? We have a glut of OFs, I could live with Grandy as a 3rd/4th OF, but "live with" isn't "the ideal," and that depends on outfielders not named Grandy, really.
                          Again we have to wonder about Conforto. True...I don't think we have to worry about him being as bad as he was early on--that'd be hard to replicate--but we can't count on him being a wunderkind, either.
                          Do you take a shot with Walker and his back? I would for that reason--between his not old-but-not young age and his back, he won't get the offers he might otherwise have gotten with the numbers he was putting up, and he seemed to mesh well with the team, so it seems in both sides' interests to at least seriously consider a second act to this...not saying it will happen, but that there's at least a distinct possibility and both sides have more incentive than not.
                          How do you fill 3rd base with Wright just about done? Is Flores and option? I've called for Flores there for months now...if I'm the Mets I look to acquire someone like Pablo Sandoval was in his good years, NOT HIM, but someone LIKE him--ie, someone who can play both corners--and make that the big Free Agent Signing Priority not named "Cespedes"--gives you some needed offense, and you can flex that player around as needeed with Flores/whatever remains of Wright at 3B and Loney as the backup 1B.
                          Is Loney the answer at 1st base or do you go back to Lucas Dud (a)? OR do you sign someone? ---who I don't know See the above...I would like to see the Mets keep Loney, good line drive hitter with good defense, he's a great bench piece, and I could live with him starting, but I'd prefer the above scenario.
                          Cabrera was good but can you expect it again? I'd look for insurance there more than a replacement.
                          Catcher? - Yuck all around. Do they wait again for dArnaud to emerge? Can they live with Suckwecki? Pick and choose your battles--I have to prioritize the issues above over replacing d'Arnaud/making him the 2nd guy.
                          Jay Bruce is going to be here - get use to it. Yep...I'll hope his latter production's more the norm than the ice-cold start...he's not the Cespedes replacement brass was praying he'd be to justify not paying him.
                          Is Familia the closer you want in big games? Not after blowing that game and 3 games in the World Series, but again, prioritization--GOTTA retain Cespedes, and GOTTA have 1B and 3B locked in--whether that's one guy at one position or swapping around as needed as I described--and then getting insurance for the middle infield has to be a focus as well...as they say with quarterbacks, unless you think you can do better, stick with your guy...that said, this is a trend now, so while I wouldn't worry about him for a season--51/56 saves--for the POSTSEASON, when the PRESSURE'S ON...yeah, I'd worry, but we first need to worry about trying to get back there.

                          Of course the 800pd gorilla in the room is as I mentioned above....what happens after Cespedes opts out. If anyone thinks he isn't opting out because he loves NY so much don't kid yourself. He is opting out. I would be more than surprised if he didn't. Actually he would be really stupid not to. REALLY stupid. This is a very weak FA market, and he would be a crowned jewel in the market. I believe this was the strategy all along by Cespedes and his agent. There were a few OF'er last year that were clogging the market. Not this year.

                          I could be wrong about the opt out, but if he were my client or I was Cespedes I would opt out today.

                          I'm hoping and praying he wants to stay and the Mets can somehow buy one more year...it helps that he likes the team and area...but financially it makes all the sense in the world to opt out...that said, the Mets HAVE to re-sign him, do whatever it takes, whatever it costs, don't tell me there's not a way to do it when you've done it already, lol...MAYBE try another front-loaded deal...I have to think Mets brass knows they got this far AGAIN in large part because he's the undisputed position player MVP on that team, he WAS the whole offense just about for whole stretches, you HAVE to keep him, even if it means not getting to some of those other issues...Bruce didn't prove himself the replacement they wanted him to be, Conforto didn't break out, THEY NEED TO KEEP HIM.
                          All in all, I can't be AS down on their chances at October again next year going forward since they made it this far this depleted, and they've now done this late-season surge twice (*NOT* saying they should ever count on that--who would?!--just saying that's a better background to bet on than the reverse) and I again give more credit to the ungodly October presence that IS Madison Bumgarner (the way Noah pitched, just about anyone else on the mound for the opposition and we score SOMETHING and win, just gotta tip your cap to a growing October legend) than blame to non-Familia Mets...

                          Would I bet on the Mets contending next year?
                          No.
                          Would I bet against them?
                          No.
                          The Mets have definite concerns to address...but I'd rather that than total irrelevance...
                          On the plus side, the staff will be back next year (and yes, all have question marks, but with THREE guys coming back...SOMEONE'S bound to come back fine?)
                          And we'll see about Walker.
                          On the negative side, Cespedes HAS to come back, he's said he hopes so, that's better than "No way"...they'll have through the World Series to negotiate exclusively with him...but that's the singular terrifying terror of terror-dom looming over this whole off-season until it's decided.
                          And we'll see about Familia...if we get far enough to worry about his choke-tastic performances.
                          "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Separate from the Mets...

                            Rooting interests going forward? It's not QUITE hockey season (no matter the sport, preseason doesn't count, only ever does if there's an injury) and the less said about football teams between us all, I think, the better. And those look like some great match-ups going forward...

                            With the Mets out, I'd LOVE to see Toronto win it all, just because they've it's been more 20 years for them, and in a division that's been Yankees/Red Sox for...wow, I was going to say 15 years, but going back to the Yankees in 1996 it's really closer to 20 now--the AL East is the AL division I care about (the West's been uninteresting to me except when the Angels out here get in, and then as I've said before, the AL Central's the division I care about the least by far) so I'd like to see Toronto beat rivals in Texas (ALWAYS root against Texas teams ) and win the AL pennant.

                            Red Sox/Indians looks like a good series, but not one I automatically care about...

                            Some WFAN host mentioned it, and I'd LOVE to see it--Dodgers/Giants NLCS. Forget the Cubs. Forget the Nats. THAT I will watch! Bumgarner's the Tom Brady to Kershaw's Peyton Manning right now, and it's Dodgers/Giants and that's been good all year, good again for years now, it's THE National League rivalry...THAT is the match-up I want to see (and if I'm MLB, I'd love that match-up, ratings and buzz-wise...LA vs. SF might cut out the East Coast, but still Dodgers/Giants has to have name brand appeal at least, and Kershaw vs. Bumgarner with the pennant on the line is pretty damn good.)

                            And while I NEVER feel this way about the team that's beaten my own in the postseason (I never get the whole "At least we were beaten by the champions" thing...maybe it's the Shakespeare fan in me, but wouldn't you want your death AVENGED? ) I actually wouldn't mind it if the Giants did win it all. I'd root for them over the Cubs, Dodgers, and Nationals, that's for sure...and in an age where it's hard to build a dynasty, 3 in 5 years is already a baseball dynasty on the smaller scale, but 4 in 8 WOULD be impressive (with the added quirk they then WOULD have successfully done it all in even years, lol, would make it unique and stand out, if nothing less.)
                            "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would love to see the Indians and Cubs in the World Series. It will force one of them to finally stop sucking and win a World Series. It's been 68 years for the Indians and 109 years for the Cubs.

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