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Bobby Abreu... has won a Gold Glove Award

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  • #16
    Originally posted by donzblock
    Here's an assignment for you, LP fan. Analyze your stats, and you tell us what they do not cover and where they fall short.
    well, obviously lots is not covered: doubles, triples, walks, on base percentage, to name a few offensively

    however, upon further analysis, Abreu still comes out ahead of Giles:
    Total bases: Abreu 293/y; Giles 271/y
    Walks: Abreu 107; Giles 98
    Stolen bases: Abreu: 29; Giles 10
    OBP: Abreu .4ll; Giles .413
    TPA: Abreu 681; Giles 612

    On the whole you can expect Abreu to steal more bases, bat more times, walk more times, get on base as much, yada yada yada....
    but, if you were talking about clutch hitting, etc... wouldnt that pretty much wash out over 8 years of stats?
    or are you getting at more intangibles,like, is he a good clubhouse guy, does he tell jokes in the shower?, is he nice to the reporters? does he care about his team mates? how can anyone who is not a player know about that?

    Defensively, as this is about a gold glove, how else can you compare the 2 players? maybe if Bobby played a few more innings than he'd get a few more chances......over 8/9 years of stats, I don't really know how much of a factor that is; I guess where I fell short, is like Giles, most of his throws fall short of home plate.....

    anyways, dblock, I know we don't agree on much, but, hey I think we're both phillies fans.....heres to the World Series in '06..or ' 07..Gillick is a winner...good track record

    Great Ball Teams: Tigers '68, Phils '80, Tigers '84

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    • #17
      Originally posted by donzblock
      Is there a rightfielder who fields his position worse than Abreu?
      quite possibly Matt Lawton and definetly Matt Stairs. unlike the two of them though, Abreu does have an arm for RF...even if it is average by RF standards.

      Is there anybody less willing to injure himself in pursuit of a fly ball?
      not a right fielder, but i'd have to say steroid bonds.
      RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

      AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

      Angel of Death
      Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
      Infamous butcher,
      Angel of Death

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      • #18
        Originally posted by LP fan
        anyways, dblock, I know we don't agree on much, but, hey I think we're both phillies fans.....heres to the World Series in '06..or ' 07..Gillick is a winner...good track record
        I'll settle for '06. Gillick, however, appears to have accepted this job to ease his way into retirement. If he is serious about being a Phillies' GM rather than a management lap dog, then he should start by trading that fabulous gold glover, Abreu. He can use your stats to make other teams want him.

        Now you can atone for your sins, LP fan, by staying away from CB Park this year.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by LP fan
          well, obviously lots is not covered: doubles, triples, walks, on base percentage, to name a few offensively

          however, upon further analysis, Abreu still comes out ahead of Giles:
          Total bases: Abreu 293/y; Giles 271/y
          Walks: Abreu 107; Giles 98
          Stolen bases: Abreu: 29; Giles 10
          OBP: Abreu .4ll; Giles .413
          TPA: Abreu 681; Giles 612
          My God, do I wish I had seen this dreck earlier. Let me ask you, do you ever watch actual baseball ,or do you play the games usingthe back of their player cards like we did when we were kids? Stratomatic maybe? See, the point is that when a guy goes 4-4 with 4 RBI and they win 11-2 and then the next day strikes out three times leaving 5 guys on base and they lose 2-1, he ends up with great stats but they're very soft stats. I don't know if the kind of detail I'd like to see exists but I GUARANTEE you that both Abreu and Pat Splat have VERY different numbers late in close games than they do in blow outs. ONE time this year did Abreu deliver after the sixth inning in a close game, that I recall and I'm pretty familiar with about every game they played. Those numbers mean squat and I'm so tired of stats being used to blindly justify today's players.

          Eddie Murray can you hear me?

          Abreu is a dog, with fantasy baseball numbers. He's far from the guy I want up needing any kid of hit late in a close game. And THAT is how I rate the value of an offensive player. Brian Giles is a clutch guy who will run into the wall to make a play for you, just like his brother. Don't embarrass yourself anymore trying to show Abreu superior to Giles. I'd trade Abreu and another player to get Brian Giles here.

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          • #20
            Giles is a free agent, no?

            Anyway, I've long considered Abreau the best trading chip the Phillies have. This Gold Glove hardware can only pump up the value.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by johncap
              My God, do I wish I had seen this dreck earlier. Let me ask you, do you ever watch actual baseball ,or do you play the games usingthe back of their player cards like we did when we were kids? Stratomatic maybe? See, the point is that when a guy goes 4-4 with 4 RBI and they win 11-2 and then the next day strikes out three times leaving 5 guys on base and they lose 2-1, he ends up with great stats but they're very soft stats. I don't know if the kind of detail I'd like to see exists but I GUARANTEE you that both Abreu and Pat Splat have VERY different numbers late in close games than they do in blow outs. ONE time this year did Abreu deliver after the sixth inning in a close game, that I recall and I'm pretty familiar with about every game they played. Those numbers mean squat and I'm so tired of stats being used to blindly justify today's players.

              Eddie Murray can you hear me?

              Abreu is a dog, with fantasy baseball numbers. He's far from the guy I want up needing any kid of hit late in a close game. And THAT is how I rate the value of an offensive player. Brian Giles is a clutch guy who will run into the wall to make a play for you, just like his brother. Don't embarrass yourself anymore trying to show Abreu superior to Giles. I'd trade Abreu and another player to get Brian Giles here.
              You are the one who should be embarrassed: you made a qualitative, opinionated statement without any evidence to support it.....I at least provide some evidence to support my point of view....

              Great Ball Teams: Tigers '68, Phils '80, Tigers '84

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by johncap
                I'd trade Abreu and another player to get Brian Giles here.
                thank God you're not the new GM then....
                Abreu leads a team that won 88 games....Giles stumbles around with a barely .500 club, and has done nothing to improve that team in 3 yrs...no thanks, I'd pass on that trade.

                Great Ball Teams: Tigers '68, Phils '80, Tigers '84

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                • #23
                  Abreu is only one of the best hitters in baseball. the thing to do would be to keep him, and acquire Giles. Burrell, Giles, Abreu, Howard and Utley are going generate more than enough offense to compensate for a below average defensive CFer.
                  RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

                  AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

                  Angel of Death
                  Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
                  Infamous butcher,
                  Angel of Death

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LP fan
                    thank God you're not the new GM then....
                    Abreu leads a team that won 88 games....Giles stumbles around with a barely .500 club, and has done nothing to improve that team in 3 yrs...no thanks, I'd pass on that trade.
                    Then "God" is responsible for the latest Phillie screw-up. Abreu does not lead the Phillies; he is not a leader. He is exactly what Johncap says he is: a soft stats guy who chokes in the clutch. Giles is far better than Abreu; he is even better at drawing bases on balls. If you would pass on that trade, then you would fail on that trade.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LP fan
                      You are the one who should be embarrassed: you made a qualitative, opinionated statement without any evidence to support it.....I at least provide some evidence to support my point of view....
                      The FBI says they can prove it through physics in a nuclear laboratory. Of course they can prove it. Theoretical physics can also prove that an elephant can hang off a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy! But use your eyes, your common sense..
                      I AM ROSTERDAMUS!!!

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                      • #26
                        my common sense says that if i'm Abreu, i'm getting out of Philly and going somewhere that appreciates my 7.43 RC/27.

                        Abreu, 2005:
                        RISP: 944 OPS
                        RISP 2/outs: 825 OPS
                        Bases Loaded:1157 OPS
                        Close and Late: 993 OPS
                        Overall: 879 OPS

                        Abreu, Career:
                        RISP: 1003 OPS
                        RISP 2/outs: 976 OPS
                        Bases Loaded: 988 OPS
                        Overall: 923 OPS
                        Last edited by Ravenlord; 11-08-2005, 11:31 AM.
                        RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

                        AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

                        Angel of Death
                        Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
                        Infamous butcher,
                        Angel of Death

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          When last I checked baseball is played on a field not on a calculator...what's his PGWH rating?
                          The Phillies Barstool Lives!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ravenlord
                            my common sense says that if i'm Abreu, i'm getting out of Philly and going somewhere that appreciates my 7.43 RC/27.
                            What is that? Some kind of sailboat?

                            .
                            I AM ROSTERDAMUS!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Runs Created per game. it's the average amount of runs a lineup of 9 of that player would score per game.
                              RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

                              AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

                              Angel of Death
                              Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
                              Infamous butcher,
                              Angel of Death

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ed hardiman
                                When last I checked baseball is played on a field not on a calculator...what's his PGWH rating?
                                he said to the college baseball player. where did you get PGWH from?
                                RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

                                AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

                                Angel of Death
                                Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
                                Infamous butcher,
                                Angel of Death

                                Comment

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