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Schilling dealt back to hometown Phillies

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  • #61
    Originally posted by johncap
    Managers don't win games but they lose them. Francona is NOT a good manager. Never was, never will be. LaRussa and Leyland know how to get the most out of their players. There's an old adage about managing, whether in business or sports, and it goes that a manager's job is to put his/her players/employees in a position to succeed, first and foremost. Managers who set their players up to fail are the worst kind. That includes playing people in roles or situations they're not well-suite for; leaving players in situations when it's evident they will fail; changing people's inate approach, etc. Then there's that intangible called "feel". Why is it some managers are more apt to "press the right button" than others? Sure, in some cases they have MORE good buttons to push. Some just have a better feel for the game and understanding of their assets. IMO LaRussa and Leyland are two that push the right buttons more than most. They're the two best managers in baseball. Torre is more in the catgory of having so many good buttons to push it's hard to make mistakes. But he's also a people person and it's not easy to manage a team full of superstars and super egoes.

    So where does Bobby Cox fit into all of this?
    "You teach me baseball and I'll teach you relativity...No we must not. You will learn about relativity faster than I learn baseball."
    --Albert Einstein
    "Jimmy Connors plays two tennis matches and winds up with $850,000, and Muhammad Ali fights for one bout and winds up with five million bucks. Me, I play 190 games--if you count exhibitions -- and I'm overpaid!?"
    --Johnny Bench

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Go Gomes
      As far as Joe Torre is concerned I think he's vastly overrated, who wouldnt be able to win with Jeter, Arod, Giambi, Abreu, Matsui, Cano, and Posada? Even Charlie Manuel could win with that team.....I hope.
      Let's not get carried away.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by PhillyA_man
        So where does Bobby Cox fit into all of this?
        Cox has done a remarkable job too. I mentioned him the other day in the same context. I think he's done it less technically than LaRussa and Leyland, and more one the "human resorce" side of things. Leo Mazzone was hugely impactful on their run as well. I'm not saying this year's slide is because of Leo's absence, because there's a vastly different cast there, but he was unbelievable with that pitching staff. And, actually, in my opinion, John Schuerholz is the guy responsible for much of their success of the past 15 years. That guy IS the anti-Ed Wade. If I'm staeting from scratch, it's either him or Billy Beane putting my team together.

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        • #64
          Interestingly, I'd just popped in here form another managerial thread under the Mets' forum.

          Anyway, who are the managers who have gotten the most of players, known which position to put them into?

          Also, since fans often scream, "How could you leave PITCHER X in to face BATTER Y, who has a .450 BA against him? Do these managers go by who they think is hot on the mound and put them in? Or make lefty-righty matchups? Pitcher-hitter matchups from the past?
          Please read Baseball Fever Policy and Forum FAQ before posting. 2007-11 CBA
          Rest very peacefully, John “Buck” O'Neil (1911-2006) & Philip Francis “Scooter” Rizzuto (1917-2007)
          THE BROOKLYN DODGERS - 1890 thru 1957
          Montreal Expos 1969 - 2004

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          • #65
            Originally posted by johncap
            Yes, even Ed Wade said what he said. So why don't you get that the fans appreciated a guy willing to say what he thought. Yes, sometimes he didn't think about the consequences. Wade's reaction was because what Svhilling was saying was thet the team ewasnb't committed to winning. And obviously Wade took offense. The fans agreed with Schilling on this and many other points. We don't ask to always agree; just to stick to your beliefs and stand up; with regard to off the field issues.
            Hey, where is Donzblock?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Judway
              Hey, where is Donzblock?
              Some of the former Phillies' posters left to go to another website because of how they were treated here.

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              • #67
                Further to Mike Schmidt, here's a couple of examples:

                Schmidt and Richie Ashburn were inducted into the hall of fame the same year (1995). After all the ceremonies were said and done, Schmidt made comments (complaints) in an interview about Philly fans not appreciating him, not treating him fair, so on and so on. Yet during the induction ceremonies on the open house day when the inductees were supposed to be at the Hall to sign autographs, chat with fans, etc., Schmidt went to play golf. I recall Ashburn criticized Schmidt fairly strongly on air the following week for his no-show that day, and suggesting that maybe his long history of snubbing fans was why he was not treated well by them. Ashburn concluded that Schmidt "just didn't get it" ... and probably never would.

                Schmidt turned down numerous autograph requests from just about every kid I knew in the 70s, include myself a half dozen times - both in person and via mail.... perhaps quoting Bill James... a better athlete than a human being...

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by ozone11
                  Further to Mike Schmidt, here's a couple of examples:

                  Schmidt and Richie Ashburn were inducted into the hall of fame the same year (1995). After all the ceremonies were said and done, Schmidt made comments (complaints) in an interview about Philly fans not appreciating him, not treating him fair, so on and so on. Yet during the induction ceremonies on the open house day when the inductees were supposed to be at the Hall to sign autographs, chat with fans, etc., Schmidt went to play golf. I recall Ashburn criticized Schmidt fairly strongly on air the following week for his no-show that day, and suggesting that maybe his long history of snubbing fans was why he was not treated well by them. Ashburn concluded that Schmidt "just didn't get it" ... and probably never would.

                  Schmidt turned down numerous autograph requests from just about every kid I knew in the 70s, include myself a half dozen times - both in person and via mail.... perhaps quoting Bill James... a better athlete than a human being...
                  A good part of Schmidt's acceptance speach was dedicated to praising and mending fences with the fans. Anyone here during Schmidt's tenure knows it was Schmidt's demeanor that created the issues that the fans were merely reacting to. He DIDN'T get it. At all. Just like Scott Rolen. Contrast those guys to Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Shane Victorino, et al, who say all the right things and truly seem to be enjoying themselves and appreciate that the fans only want to see them play hard and CARE. It's not about winning, God knows that's too much to ask.

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