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  • Who are the 100 greatest Phillies?

    I'd like to hear people's opinions on who would make up a list of the 100 greatest Phillies players of all-time.

    Let's start with the obvious, I see 35 guys that are sure-fire on the list, who I've counted off below in alphabetical order. I don't think anyone would argue about any of them beloning somewhere on the list of the top 100 Phils. For the other 65 spots, it starts to become harder. I think it could spur some good conversation to start throwing out some names and see what people think.

    The "locks":

    1. Grover Cleveland Alexander
    2. Dick Allen
    3. Richie Ashburn
    4. Larry Bowa
    5. Jim Bunning
    6. Johnny Callison
    7. Steve Carlton
    8. Gavvy Cravath
    9. Ed Delahanty
    10. Lenny Dykstra
    11. Del Ennis
    12. Tony Gonzalez
    13. Billy Hamilton
    14. Granny Hamner
    15. Ryan Howard
    16. Willie Jones
    17. Chuck Klein
    18. Fred Luderus
    19. Greg Luzinski
    20. Garry Maddox
    21. Sherry Magee
    22. Tug McGraw
    23. Robin Roberts
    24. Jimmy Rollins
    25. Pete Rose
    26. Curt Schilling
    27. Mike Schmidt
    28. Chris Short
    29. Curt Simmons
    30. Tony Taylor
    31. Sam Thompson
    32. Chase Utley
    33. Eddie Waitkus
    34. Pinky Whitney
    35. Cy Williams

    other players nominated in the thread so far, in no particular order:

    36. Elmer Flick
    37. Nap Lajoie
    38. Scott Rolen
    39. Bobby Abreu
    40. Roy Thomas
    50. Manny Trillo
    51. Darren Daulton
    52. Don Hurst
    53. Dolph Camilli
    54. John Kruk
    55. Dave Bancroft
    56. Bob Boone
    57. Jack Clements
    58. Mickey Doolan
    59. Charlie Ferguson
    60. Von Hayes
    61. Milke Lieberthal
    62. Stan Lopata
    63. Al Orth
    64. Dode Paskert
    65. Eppa Rixey
    66. Juan Samuel
    67. Andy Seminick
    68. Tully Sparks
    69. Jack Taylor
    70. John Titus
    71. Pinky Whitney
    72. Cy Williams
    73. Lefty O'Doul
    74. Bake McBride
    75. Charlie Buffington
    76. Steve Bedrosian
    77. Jim Konstanty
    78. Ron Reed
    79. Mitch Williams
    80. Greg Gross
    81. Del Unser

    82. Jack Baldschun
    83. Dick Bartell
    84. Ricky Botallico
    85. Kitty Bransfield
    86. Pat Burrell
    87. Kid Carsey
    88. Dan Casey
    89. Dave Cash
    90. Larry Christenson
    91. Lave Cross
    92. Clay Dalrymple
    93. Spud Davis
    94. John Denny
    95. Red Dooin
    96. Mickey Doolan
    97. Bill Duggleby
    98. Jim Eisenreich
    99. Dick Farrell
    100. Barney Friberg
    101. Gene Garber
    102. Doug Glanville
    103. Kid Gleason
    104. Bill Hallman
    105. Ken Heintzelman
    106. Walt Henline
    107. Don Hurst
    108. Larry Jackson
    109. Deron Johnson
    110. Otto Knabe
    111. Danny Litwhiler
    112. Art Mahaffey
    113. Gary Matthews
    114. Erskine Mayer
    115. Tim McCarver
    116. Emil Meusel
    117. Willie Montanez
    118. Earl Moore
    119. Johnny Moore
    120. Mickey Morandini
    121. Terry Mulholland
    122. Ron Northey
    123. Wiley Piatt
    124. Shane Rawley
    125. Jimmy Ring
    126. Eppa Rixey
    127. Cookie Rojas
    128. Heinie Sand
    129. Jimmy Wilson
    130. Rick Wise
    131. Russ Whitestone
    132. Tuck Turner
    133. John Denny
    134. Don Carman
    135. Kevin Gross
    136. Dick Ruthven
    Last edited by TheoBallgame; 07-02-2008, 04:51 PM.

  • #2
    Elmer Flick and Nap Lajoie jumped to the AL from the Phillies. Roy Thomas was a turn of the century CF, who posted high OBP and runs scored. Would you consider Rolen and Abreu?

    Comment


    • #3
      Scott Rolen and Bobby Abreu definitely. The above list isn't even neccesarily a "top 35", but rather 35 guys I figure no one can argue. Roy Thomas is a good bet too, and I doubt we could make a list like this without including Lajoie and Flick, though if we were to rank them 1-100, the challenge would be to consider JUST their years in a Phillie uniform. In modern times, Manny Trillo would be a player like that. And even with guys who spent a lot of years in Philadelphia, like Darren Daulton, but really only had a few outstanding seasons, how would they rank in comparison to someone who had a longer run, but maybe didn't put up as many big numbers.

      Then there's the issue of those deadball era pitchers with gaudy win totals...

      Comment


      • #4
        I am reasonably certain that the name of Kim Batiste will not be on the list.

        Comment


        • #5
          Some time in the next day I'll throw out about 35 other names and see if there's any opposition. Eventually I'd like to come up with at least 120 names and cut it down to the top 100.

          And then, we get to put them in order!

          Additions from thread conversation so far:

          36. Elmer Flick
          37. Nap Lajoie
          38. Scott Rolen
          39. Bobby Abreu
          40. Roy Thomas
          50. Manny Trillo
          51. Darren Daulton
          Last edited by TheoBallgame; 06-20-2008, 10:06 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams?
            Click here to see my autographed 8x10 collection

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheoBallgame View Post
              And even with guys who spent a lot of years in Philadelphia, like Darren Daulton, but really only had a few outstanding seasons, how would they rank in comparison to someone who had a longer run, but maybe didn't put up as many big numbers.
              Then why is Dykstra on the list? With the exception of 1990 and 1993, he was injured most of the time.

              I would like to nominate Don Hurst, Dolph Camilli and John Kruk to this list.
              Last edited by Steve Jeltz; 06-21-2008, 12:08 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hurst, Camilli, and Kruk are all top 100 IMO.

                Williams I need to think about, there's some other relievers who I think need to get on here before Mitch. He could squeek in to the top 100 though.

                52. Don Hurst
                53. Dolph Camilli
                54. John Kruk

                Comment


                • #9
                  I didn't want to take the time to go 100 deep, but here's all the guys I could find who are either in the HOF with over 2000 PA as a Phil and/or have over 100 win shares, plus Utley, Rose and Howard. Utley probably has already passed 100 win shares with his play this year. This list is in order of win shares, except for Abreu because I don't know how to split 2006. I have 55 names, and I'd say all 55 belong in the Phils' top 100:

                  Code:
                  win shares	last	first
                  467	Schmidt	Mike
                  305	Delahanty	Ed
                  289	Ashburn	Richie
                  284	Magee	Sherry
                  277	Roberts	Robin
                  276	Carlton	Steve
                  238	Alexander	Pete
                  233	Thomas	Roy
                  215	Ennis	Del
                  211	Allen	Dick
                  209	Callison	Johnny
                  188	Klein	Chuck
                  188	Cravath	Gavvy
                  184	Luzinski	Greg
                  177	Titus	John 
                  176	Williams	Cy
                  166	Thompson	Sam
                  165	Hamilton	Billy
                  158	Luderus	Fred
                  158	Hayes	Von
                  155	Rollins*	Jimmy
                  154	Daulton	Darren
                  151	Bowa	Larry
                  150	Maddox	Garry
                  148	Taylor	Tony
                  145	Gonzalez	Tony
                  144	Hamner	Granny
                  142	Ferguson	Charlie
                  141	Short	Chris
                  139	Rolen	Scott
                  133	Clements	Jack
                  131	Paskert	Dode
                  130	Dykstra	Lenny
                  127	Doolan	Mickey
                  121	Lieberthal	Mike
                  121	Schilling	Curt
                  121	Simmons	Curt
                  118	Orth	Al
                  115	Bunning	Jim 
                  113	Jones	Puddin' Head 
                  113	Whitney	Pinky
                  111	Flick	Elmer
                  111	Boone	Bob
                  110	Sparks	Tully
                  110	Seminick	Andy
                  109	Kruk	John
                  105	Samuel	Juan
                  104	Rixey	Eppa
                  104	Lopata	Stan
                  93	Utley*	Chase
                  93	LaJoie	Nap
                  92	Bancroft	Dave
                  85	Rose	Pete
                  66	Howard*	Ryan
                  216**	Abreu	Bobby
                  		
                  *	current Phillie	
                  **	need to deduct 2006 Yankee win shares
                  Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                  Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                  A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Now the alphabetical listing:

                    Code:
                    last	first	win shares
                    Abreu	Bobby	216**
                    Alexander	Pete	238
                    Allen	Dick	211
                    Ashburn	Richie	289
                    Bancroft	Dave	92
                    Boone	Bob	111
                    Bowa	Larry	151
                    Bunning	Jim 	115
                    Callison	Johnny	209
                    Carlton	Steve	276
                    Clements	Jack	133
                    Cravath	Gavvy	188
                    Daulton	Darren	154
                    Delahanty	Ed	305
                    Doolan	Mickey	127
                    Dykstra	Lenny	130
                    Ennis	Del	215
                    Ferguson	Charlie	142
                    Flick	Elmer	111
                    Gonzalez	Tony	145
                    Hamilton	Billy	165
                    Hamner	Granny	144
                    Hayes	Von	158
                    Howard*	Ryan	66
                    Jones	Puddin' Head 	113
                    Klein	Chuck	188
                    Kruk	John	109
                    LaJoie	Nap	93
                    Lieberthal	Mike	121
                    Lopata	Stan	104
                    Luderus	Fred	158
                    Luzinski	Greg	184
                    Maddox	Garry	150
                    Magee	Sherry	284
                    Orth	Al	118
                    Paskert	Dode	131
                    Rixey	Eppa	104
                    Roberts	Robin	277
                    Rolen	Scott	139
                    Rollins*	Jimmy	155
                    Rose	Pete	85
                    Samuel	Juan	105
                    Schilling	Curt	121
                    Schmidt	Mike	467
                    Seminick	Andy	110
                    Short	Chris	141
                    Simmons	Curt	121
                    Sparks	Tully	110
                    Taylor	Tony	148
                    Thomas	Roy	233
                    Thompson	Sam	166
                    Titus	John 	177
                    Utley*	Chase	93
                    Whitney	Pinky	113
                    Williams	Cy	176
                    		
                    *	current Phillie	
                    **	need to deduct 2006 Yankee win shares
                    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good stuff J.

                      So let's keep adding to the list, again the numbers are listed just to keep track of how many we've got, they don't indicate any particular order:

                      55. Dave Bancroft
                      56. Bob Boone
                      57. Jack Clements
                      58. Mickey Doolan
                      59. Charlie Ferguson
                      60. Von Hayes
                      61. Milke Lieberthal
                      62. Stan Lopata
                      63. Al Orth
                      64. Dode Paskert
                      65. Eppa Rixey
                      66. Juan Samuel
                      67. Andy Seminick
                      68. Tully Sparks
                      69. Tony Taylor
                      70. John Titus
                      71. Pinky Whitney
                      72. Cy Williams

                      That gives us less than 30 to go to 100, though I'd like to exceed 100 and make the cuts, just to be sure we're not missing anyone.

                      We're getting down to the nitty-gritty, keep the suggestions coming!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Someone mentioned Mitch Williams. I'm still not sure, but I did want to get a look at Phillies relievers.

                        Tug McGraw's already on the list. What other relievers might crack the top 100.

                        I would imagine Jim Konstanty, maybe Ron Reed,... Al Holland?

                        Thoughts?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Steve Bedrosian

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A better suggestion than Holland, I've gotta say. Short time in a Phillies uniform, but excellent while he was here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And another thread that has met a quick death.

                              Comment

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