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Is Buster Olney Serious?!?!

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  • Is Buster Olney Serious?!?!

    This is an excerpt from his blog:

    I'd call the Blue Jays and say, You can't have J.A. Happ, but you can take any other three guys from the A list in our farm system -- Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald, whoever -- and one guy from the B list and another from the C list, and let's get this done.


    Now I know that Halladay won't come cheap but that's a bit exuberant. No?!

    --

    Now I don't know about you folks...but that seems a bit exuberant to me! Borderline crazy if you ask me. Call me a sucker for home grown talent if you like, but giving all of that up would be a tough pill to swallow.
    "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

  • #2
    How much do you think another WS ring is worth?? Yes, that's expensive, but Halladay is bona fide top of the rotation stud.

    I guess it would really come down to what kind of players I thought my prospects were really going to be.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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    • #3
      If I understand the deal, that's five prospects for Halladay, which unless they're taking at least two or three lower bullpen/reserve type prospects, is rather steep. I might risk Happ, because I see him as a middle of the rotation guy at best, which certainly has its value, but I'd be very leery of throwing Drabek into a five guy deal like I understand is being proposed here. Drabek could wind up being Halladay a few years from now but younger and throwing four other prospects on top for good measure is probably more than I'd want to pay.

      My general reaction to the suggested deal is that this blogger is too anxious. Thus he is willing to overpay, perhaps quite seriously, to get Halladay, even understanding that Halladay should command a high price. The bottom line is a deal had better 1) virtually guarantee at least one or two more World Series championships (questionable); and/or 2) not be a case where you give away a lot more talent than you get.
      Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
      Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
      A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
        How much do you think another WS ring is worth?? Yes, that's expensive, but Halladay is bona fide top of the rotation stud.

        I guess it would really come down to what kind of players I thought my prospects were really going to be.
        I know that if you want Doc your going to have to give to get...but 3 "A" Prospects along with a B & a C Prospect is a hefty a price.
        "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TonyStarks View Post
          I know that if you want Doc your going to have to give to get...but 3 "A" Prospects along with a B & a C Prospect is a hefty a price.
          I understand your position, but suppose you don't value them as highly as the outside rating services like BA. Suppose your internal talent evaluator tells you these guy are really 1 "A", 3 "B's" and a "C"?? And at what level are these guys?? If the A's are still in A Ball you can't value them that highly. On the other hand if they are bona fide A's and are in AA or AAA then you have to prize them more dearly.
          Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

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          • #6
            MLB.com was reporting yesterday that Pedro Martinez was due to arrive in Philadelphia last night, and was going to sign with the Phillies contingent upon passing a physical. Now today, nothing...
            They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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            • #7
              He went to Philly's Jefferson Hospital today and got his physical. But nothing has been announced, and he was quoted as there being no deal yet on his way out of the hospital. I'm guessing the Phillies don't want to have anything show up their manager and players in the All Star game tonight. Tommorow the announcement will come.

              Comment


              • #8
                I've got to be honest. I agree with Buster on this one.

                Happ is the only one that has proven he can pitch effectively at the major league level. All any of these prospects have is potential. A lot can change.

                Anyone remember Dennis Cook? He was supposed to be the next Steve Carlton. Or Gavin Floyd?

                I'm impressed with how Drabek has looked in the minors too, but in all honesty, what are the chances he developes into a pitcher anywhere near as good as Halladay? 1 in 10? 1 in 20? 1 in 50?

                I'd be willing to give up the prospects as long as Halladay was signing an extension. I'll take Halladay for 4-5 years over the potential of our prospects.
                The Tortured Phanatic -- Rants and thoughts from a lifelong Philly sports fan.

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                • #9
                  I was watching ESPN the other night and they were talking about how making trades for NOW talent if the NOW talent is great is always the better deal. Especially when a team has a lot of key pieces already in place for a few years.

                  That being said, you can't really go wrong with Halladay. But the Phillies may not even need Halladay. They could possibly be good enough as is to win the WS again.

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                  • #10
                    The Phillies have so many kids that have come up through their system like OFs Taylor, Mayberry Jr., INF- Donald, C- Marson, and a whole slew of AAA and AA balll pitchers that are on the verge of making it, that will be in the majors no later than 2010 or 2011, that it may be wiser to hold on to them rather than to go for Halladay and a quick fix now.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by philliesfiend55 View Post
                      The Phillies have so many kids that have come up through their system like OFs Taylor, Mayberry Jr., INF- Donald, C- Marson, and a whole slew of AAA and AA balll pitchers that are on the verge of making it, that will be in the majors no later than 2010 or 2011, that it may be wiser to hold on to them rather than to go for Halladay and a quick fix now.
                      I agree wholeheartedly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mikef421 View Post
                        Anyone remember Dennis Cook? He was supposed to be the next Steve Carlton.
                        You are probably thinking of Pat Combs. Dennis Cook was acquired via trade.
                        See ball, hit ball.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Phillies are giving up five unproven prospects who won't peak until the middle of the next decade. By that time, they can scout and load up their farm system again.

                          In return, they're getting a guy who WILL put up good numbers. Not just good numbers, he's the best pitcher in baseball. Right now, looking at it from the Phillies point of view, their rotation is unreliable. Cole Hamels has not been Cole Hamels. Pedro Martinez is unproven. Brett Meyers is on the DL. Joe Blanton and Jamie Moyer have both been very inconsistant. They have at times been good, at times been okay, and at times been dreadful. If they want to win a World Series in 2009, that pitching staff, coupled with Brad Lidge, isn't going to cut it.

                          If they want to match up with the Dodgers, Red Sox, or Yankees, they need to get Roy Halladay without worrying about the prospects they are giving up. The Phillies are still a young team, Utley, Howard, Madson, Werth, Victorino, and Hamels, the main franchise guys, still have many years left in them. The need for prospects isn't too immediate. Get Halladay, win now, and reload your farm system later. You can get good prospects anywhere, they're expendable and replaceable - even Drabek. Halladay isn't, he's the best pitcher in the game, they need him.
                          Let's go Yankees!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What team is clamoring to give up five prospects? Why should the Phillies jump in at this point with such a high offer? I realize Halladay won't come cheaply, but you want to pay just a little more (at least in the minds of Toronto's brass) than the others, not a lot more. Facts are, the Phils are seven up, and could well win the division without Halladay. So, Halladay is mostly about the postseason. Another fact is, Toronto will likely hold on to Halladay until the last day or two of the trading deadline unless somebody makes so good an offer they'd be afraid the offeror would come to his senses and rescind it (and that they couldn't do better elsewhere by waiting). It's a game of chicken, and if Amaro's smart, he'll play that game, even if it risks losing Halladay. The trick is to find a deal they can afford which is just a little more than anyone else will pay. I don't know if the Phils have the pieces to pull that one off--but Amaro's got to try.
                            Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                            Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                            A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you think the Phils are young, here's a quick test: of the starting eight (Ruiz, Howard, Utley, Feliz, Rollins, Werth, Victorino, and Ibanez), the closer (Lidge), the setup man (Madson), at least two members of the rotation (Moyer and Blanton), how many will be under 29 by the end of 2009?

                              wait for it..................

                              wait for it.................

                              none. Not one. Blanton, Madson and Victorino will be 29 by year's end. Howard, Werth and Ruiz 30; Utley and Rollins 31. They're not that young, not at all, by the standards of professional athletics. They're nearing the back edge of their primes, frankly. Five years from now, they'll be old. There isn't a ton of time to restock the shelves if they empty them now--on the other hand, if there's championships to be won, it's now as well unless the farm system is really well stocked or they're willing to keep spending like they are now (or even more heavily compared to the biggest spenders).
                              Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
                              Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
                              A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

                              Comment

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