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The First Great Phillie - Charlie Ferguson

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  • #1

    The First Great Phillie - Charlie Ferguson

    Pitcher/OF/2B
    Switch Hitter, Right Handed Thrower
    6-0 165 lbs.
    Native of Charlottesville

    SABR Biography Link

    He died April 29, 1888 in Philadelphia of typhoid fever, he was just 25.

    Year W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP BB SO WHIP
    1884 21 25 3.54 50 47 46 2 416 93 194 1.286
    1885 26 20 2.22 48 45 45 5 405 81 197 1.052
    1886 30 9 1.98 48 45 43 4 395 69 212 0.976
    1887 22 10 3.00 37 33 31 2 297 47 125 1.157
    Total 99 64 2.67 183 170 165 13 1514 290 728 1.117
    Year G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS
    1884 52 222 203 26 50 6 3 0 20 -- 19 54 .246 .311 .305 .616
    1885 61 258 235 42 72 8 3 1 27 -- 23 18 .306 .368 .379 .747
    1886 72 298 261 56 66 9 1 2 25 9 37 28 .253 .346 .318 .664
    1887 72 300 264 67 89 14 6 3 85 13 34 19 .337 .417 .470 .886
    Total 257 1078 963 191 277 37 13 6 157 22 113 119 .288 .364 .372 .735
    “Back in the old, old days the Phillies had a man who could pitch like a streak and play the infield, too. His name was Charley Ferguson. You can't leave him off. ... But if I have to name the best five you can put down Cobb, Keeler, Ruth, Wagner, and Ferguson for me."
    - Wilbert Robinson, 1931
    Last edited by bluesky5; 04-05-2012, 01:09 PM.
    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”
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  • #2
    Thanks for pointing out and highlighting Ferguson's career. He certainly seemed to be on his way to greatness when he was cruelly cut down in his prime. - He's a forgotten player today, but one who clearly deserves to be remembered.

    If Ferguson had lived and had a long career his His winning percentage of .607 for his 99-64 record ,would have been the same as a pitcher who went 310-200. So Ferguson was on pace for a Hall Of Fame - like career.
    Last edited by philliesfiend55; 04-04-2012, 11:47 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by philliesfiend55 View Post
      Thanks for pointing out and highlighting Ferguson's career. He certainly seemed to be on his way to greatness when he was cruelly cut down in his prime. - He's a forgotten player today, but one who clearly deserves to be remembered.

      If Ferguson had lived and had a long career his His winning percentage would have been the same as a pitcher who went 310-200. So Ferguson was on pace for a Hall Of Fame - like career.
      Yep and he played a great second base. The year he died Ed Delahanty came up with Kid Gleason and Cupid Childs, who was released, just a couple years after they sold Tommy McCarthy! Soon to come were Billy Hamilton, Lave Cross and Sam Thompson.
      Last edited by bluesky5; 04-01-2012, 12:12 PM.
      "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

      Comment

      • #4
        The Phils early 1890's lineup could have been something like:

        1. Billy Hamilton - CF (HOF) ... Top 3 all-time leadoff man.
        2. Tommy McCarthy - LF (HOF)
        3. Ed Delahanty - 1B (HOF) ... Top 10 LF all-time, also played a good amount of 1B.
        4. Sam Thompson - RF (HOF)
        5. Jack Clements - C ... OPS+ 140 from 1890-1896.
        6. Lave Cross - 3B ... One of the most underrated third baseman ever, career averages - .292/.329/.383/.711/100 OPS+
        7. Charlie Ferguson - P
        8. Cupid Childs - 2B (HOF)
        9. Bill Hallman - SS ... 15 year career

        Pitchers: Kid Gleason (2B), Gus Weyhing - 250+ wins, an aging Tim Keefe (HOF)

        Best bench players: Roger Connor - 1B (HOF) ... 1 year starting 1B stint in '92, Deacon McGuire - 26 year catching career, Bob Allen - SS, Billy Sunday - OF ... played his last 30 games here.
        Last edited by bluesky5; 04-01-2012, 08:47 PM.
        "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

        Comment

        • #5
          From 1888 - '95 the Phils finished either 3rd or 4th every year.

          Some second baseman named Lajoie came up in 1896 with Al Orth (200 game winner), Elmer Flick (HOF) in '98.

          A lot of wasted potential in Philadelphia in these times. Dang.
          Last edited by bluesky5; 04-01-2012, 12:57 PM.
          "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

          Comment

          • #6
            I've noticed that too. Back in the days before the World Series (before 1903), with only one league and sometimes as many as 12 teams the Phillies were a very solid ball club most of the time. They never won a championship but they were solidly above .500 in a typical year. They had Second place finishes in 1887 and 1901, and between 1885 (0nly their third year in existence) and 1895 they were above .500 10 out of 11 years, missing .500 one year by one game at 68-69 and never finishing below fourth place.
            It's similar to their current streak where the Phillies have been above .500 10 of the 11 seasons since 2001, finishing under .500 one year (2002) by one game at 80-81. Those 1880s and 1890s teams never hit the heights of the current Phillies, but still those were fine "Dead Ball Era" teams.
            Last edited by philliesfiend55; 04-04-2012, 11:49 AM.

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            • #7
              The considerable acheivements of Lave Cross are much overlooked. He deserves to be a least a Phillies Wall Of Famer if not an actual Hall Of Famer (Cooperstown, NY). He might get some consideration at the next HOF Veterans Committee election (Class Of 2013) which will deal with players from the inception of the sport on a professional basis in 1871 all the way through to the end of World War Two (1945). He had 2645 hits for a .292 average, plus 303 stolen bases over a 21-year career (1887-1907).
              Last edited by philliesfiend55; 04-04-2012, 11:50 AM.

              Comment

              • #8
                I was surprised to see how good Deacon McGuire was too. Harry Wright seems never to have lost an eye for talent. Apparently he was also impatient in it's development.
                "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by bluesky5 View Post
                  I was surprised to see how good Deacon McGuire was too. Harry Wright seems never to have lost an eye for talent. Apparently he was also impatient in it's development.
                  McGuire seemed to save his best seasons for teams other than the Phillies. But he was pretty solid averaging about a hit per game over 1750 career games.

                  Cross spent a lot of years in Philadelphia with both the Phillies and Athletics and some early American Association Philly teams. Apparently he could run pretty well even though he spent some time as a Catcher. He's credited with 303 stolen bases. He hit .300 only five times in 21 years, but he had one monster season. In 1894 he hit .387 with 132 RBI, 7 HR and 10 triples.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Charlie Ferguson at either Recreation Park or the Philadelphia Baseball Grounds '84-'87.
                    "No matter how great you were once upon a time — the years go by, and men forget,” - W. A. Phelon in Baseball Magazine in 1915. “Ross Barnes, forty years ago, was as great as Cobb or Wagner ever dared to be. Had scores been kept then as now, he would have seemed incomparably marvelous.”

                    Comment

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