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  • #31
    Originally posted by Nomtoc
    OMG! I JUST now had to respond to that same dude, in that same thread about the sensetivity and misunderstanding of that very same thing but I had no idea at the time he was also being hyopocritical. Guess I somehow missed that during my review over the thread prior to responding to him.

    Thanks for the enlightenment!

    Guess what..you're the one I'm refering to in the post you just quoted, so I wouldn't go throwing stones around.
    "I think about baseball when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day and I dream about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm playing it."
    Carl Yastrzemski

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    • #32
      Originally posted by runningshoes53
      Guess what..you're the one I'm refering to in the post you just quoted, so I wouldn't go throwing stones around.
      Earth to dude; I know that!

      PM me with any further attempt you care to make.
      "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
        No facts say anything. You see one thing, I see another. Can you honestly sit there and say that Bonds is an all out hustler type of player? Seriously. Now, that doesn't mean he isn't great, but it is what it is.
        Actually yes I can. I remember a play in Wrigley about three years ago when there was a short pop up along the left field wall. Bonds was playing way off of the line. He came charging in dove for ball and smashed his face up against the brick wall. He was a bit dizzy for a few seconds and he stayed in game. He had a gash on his face for a while.


        Bonds puts spin on everything, calculates his comments carefully, stages press conferences with his son (and tells ESPN to make sure they get him in the shot)...everything he does is manipulative. If you're a huge fan of his, of course you're gonna buy into the bs, but if you step back and rationalize everything, something is definately rotten in Denmark (of SF).
        Bonds is a jerk, Sultan. No one denies that. Many great players were jerks, Hornsby, Cobb, Ruth, Lefty Grove, DiMaggio, Dick Allen, shoot even Mays is known to be surly at autograph sessions. As a Bonds fan I don't really care about his personality. Baseball is basically entertainment and on the ballfield Bonds is entertaining. Why do people care if ballplayers are jerks? I sure don't. Why should we care if actors, rock stars, playwrights, writers, artists, painters are nice or jerks? We appriciate them for their unique gifts. All these people are people just like us with issues and personality conflicts. That is just life. For us to try to hold ballplayers to higher standards is ridiculous because they will always disappoint us. I can't stand those fans who try to turn baseball into some mystical experience or turn ballplayers into mythic heros. Those guys need to get a life. It's baseball. It's just a game with a long and rich history. In the grand scheme of things baseball is not important at all.

        If one doesn't like Bonds then that fine. That your opinion and you are entitiled to it. Then don't watch him play, or listen to his interviews.
        Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
          ...If one doesn't like Bonds then that fine. That your opinion and you are entitiled to it. Then don't watch him play, or listen to his interviews.

          Like the one where he was near tears and said he'd leave the game. Finally giving light to getting back the integrity of the game and then of course he changes his mind.

          Babababo, babababo, hey hey hey.......

          "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

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          • #35
            Well said.

            Another example is Cy Young, he was huge racist.
            Last edited by Nomtoc; 01-29-2006, 01:36 PM.
            "I believe in the soul ... the small of a woman's back, the hanging curveball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter."

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
              Bonds is a jerk, Sultan. No one denies that. Many great players were jerks, Hornsby, Cobb, Ruth, Lefty Grove, DiMaggio, Dick Allen, shoot even Mays is known to be surly at autograph sessions.
              And how exactly was Babe a "jerk?" To compare him to Bonds is insulting, and shows either a lack of knowledge on your part, or displays your feeble attempt to grasp for something. That comparison is beyond apples and oranges.

              I see your point though. Some do not care if players are jerks. They don't care if a player appreciates the fans or not. I get that. I've said before that I at least respect that Bonds is Bonds, and he is what he is. As opposed to a guy like Sosa who smiles for the cameras and pretends to be a fun loving Dominican where baseball has been "berry berry good to me."

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Sultan_1895-1948
                And how exactly was Babe a "jerk?" To compare him to Bonds is insulting, and shows either a lack of knowledge on your part, or displays your feeble attempt to grasp for something. That comparison is beyond apples and oranges.

                I see your point though. Some do not care if players are jerks. They don't care if a player appreciates the fans or not. I get that. I've said before that I at least respect that Bonds is Bonds, and he is what he is. As opposed to a guy like Sosa who smiles for the cameras and pretends to be a fun loving Dominican where baseball has been "berry berry good to me."
                Yes, Sultan in your eyes Ruth was "perfect". He never broke team rules and never went against the Red Sox and Yankees managment. He never was suspended my Landis for barnstorming even after he was told not to, right?

                here are some examples:

                In July 1918, Ruth ignored a sign from manager Ed Barrow during an at bat that led to a heated verbal spat when Ruth reached the dugout, and Barrow fined Ruth $500 when Ruth threatened to punch him in the nose. Ruth threw a tantrum and quit the team for a few days, and it was reported he had signed a new contract with the Chester Shipyards, a Pennsylvania-based pro team. It was also during the 1918 season that he started to refuse his pitching turns in the starting rotation, often citing injuries that Barrow would question.
                So he threaten to beat up his manager and fake arm injuries.

                There were also Ruth's off-the-field indiscretions. His late nights of partying and boozing were further sources of irritation to the franchise, and he had numerous fights with Barrow over curfew violations. Eventually Ruth was forced to write Barrow notes on what time he came in each night (notes Barrow never verified). He signed a 3-year contract in 1919 for $10,000 a year, but at the end of the 1919 season, he demanded $20,000 a year and threatened to sit out the 1920 season if he did not receive a new contract. Ruth was certainly worthy of the price, but he also needed more money to finance the large amount of money he spent on fast automobiles, fine clothes, and entertaining his many women "friends." Red Sox owner Harry Frazee commented, "If Ruth doesn't want to work for the Red Sox, we can work out an advantageous trade." To some people, Ruth had become an enfant terrible, although after his 1919 season, it seemed almost inconceivable that anyone would seriously recommend trading him.
                So sitting out for a bigger contract is not a modern idea. :o

                The 1921 World Series appearance would indirectly lead to problems for Ruth. Seeking to avoid diminishing the meaning of the fall classic, organized baseball instituted a rule in 1911 that prohibited World Series players from playing in exhibition games during the off-season. Ruth, typically, decided this rule did not apply to him, and even though Baseball Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis had warned Ruth about the trip, Ruth went ahead and embarked on his usual lucrative barnstorming tour with two teammates. Landis came down hard on the recalcitrant players, and he suspended Ruth and teammate Bob Meusel for the first six weeks of what was to be a turbulent 1922 season for Ruth. When he returned to the Yankees on May 20, Yankee management named Ruth their first on-field captain, but just five days after his return, he was ejected for arguing an umpire's call at third, and exacerbated the situation by climbing into the seats to confront a heckling fan. The captaincy was stripped, and Ruth's temper would see him suspended three more times in 1922 for arguing with umpires.
                So Ruth the Yankeess' captain for just five days? I can go and on about Ruth's behavior and how it detroyed Helen Ruth's life as well. But in the end it doesn't effect how one rate's Ruth as a player. I don't compare Ruth to Bonds or any other player. Different times, fifferent era, different game.

                In one aspect Bonds has more respect for the game. He doesn't threaten mangagers or punch fans. When Jim Leyand had enough of Bond's crap back in 1991-92 he told Bond to shut his trap and play ball. Barry backed down because he had deep respect for his manager.

                Ruth and Bonds, like all people, are flawed human beings. We all say and do thing that make us look like jerks. The only difference is that Ruth and Bonds showcased their "jerk" behavior in public.
                Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                • #38
                  runningshoes53, i did not publicly suggest that you condoned another's wish that bonds be harmed - you did. what i did, mistakenly, is take your words seriously. big difference.

                  from time to time my posts are interpreted as other than intended. discussions are not face to face and the smilies do not always provide full coverage. so i have been grateful that i have been given the benefit of the doubt. in this case, after reading the two posts, i asked fellow moderators for advice. it was only after a day had passed and a fellow mod agreed with me in principle that the two posts needed to be addressed that i posted my response. what i am saying is that i did not react in a knee-jerk manner; i gave the benefit of the doubt; i asked for help.

                  i take you at your word that you do not wish harm to any ballplayer. if you want to continue a discussion about the issue, by all means p.m. me.

                  but please do not be so bold as to *know* where i travel and what my reading habits are. your suggestion that i need to venture outside the giants forum a little more often is out of turn. you have no idea which fora i visit nor which threads i read... on a near-daily basis.
                  "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

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                  • #39
                    Why do people care if ballplayers are jerks? I sure don't. Why should we care if actors, rock stars, playwrights, writers, artists, painters are nice or jerks?


                    I care cause unfortunately barry is a role model for kids.I tell my kid to find a better role model..Yeah I care.You bet I do.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mattingly
                      Tony, need I remind you that it's definitely not in good form to wish harm upon a baseball player, even if you personally dislike him? If you hope that he never breaks Ruth's then Aaron's records, so be it. I personally may agree with you, but I wouldn't really be parading that viewpoint here in the Giants' forum. I'd at least have some dignity about how I'd voiced this.

                      Please read my comment to Tony. Sad thing is that you're both regulars to me, so I don't see any reason why these things have to be even stated. Both on your parts, as well as the resulting need for my statements.

                      Please be discreet in your words in the future, please.

                      Thanks.

                      -Matt

                      Mattingly,
                      I would like to take the time to apologize for publically stating my feelings towards Mr. Bonds.

                      In the future I should learn to curb my voice and hold back my feelings towards certain individuals in Professional Sports....no matter how vile, despicable or however arrogant that son of a toothless dog is.

                      For the Record though...I would like to let the jury know that from '87 to '95 I was one of the worlds biggest Barry Bonds fans and in his Pirate days he was my Favorite Athlete not named Mattingly.
                      "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

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                      • #41
                        the giants forum *thanks you*, mr. tonystarks.
                        "you don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. just get people to stop reading them." -ray bradbury

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules
                          OK, but using Bond's logic he shouldn't play any spring training games either because he might get hurt. How is playing in the WBC any different than playing spring training games in terms of chances of getting hurt? He was going to be the DH for Team USA so he wouldn't have had to play the field.

                          I'm very disappointed in Bonds.
                          I for one am not dissapointed in Bonds. IT is different than playing in ST. For one he will be playing with his team. As a fan I want him playing with a team than a non MLB game.
                          "Yes, he offended everyone in the Bay Area."
                          --Giants manager Felipe Alou, when reminded that A.J. Pierzynski is a more offensive catcher than the defensive-minded Mike Matheny (Sacramento Bee)
                          :gt

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