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Lincecum hurt, Bumgarner to start

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  • #16
    Originally posted by buck55 View Post
    They were both also pitching against minor leaguers, which I don't have to tell you don't measure up to big league hitters! MadBum (can we please stop calling him that?) pitched low A ball all year last year and moved up and up and up this year, pitching against more talented hitters. Same thing can be said for Cain.
    Well yeah, minor leaguers can't compare to major league hitters. That really wasn't my point. It seems to me that Cain struck out a lot of hitters in the minors and was probably not asked to work on his breaking pitchers (pitch to contact) in the minors because his minor league managers probably didn't want to mess with success. As Cain climbed the minor leagues his K/9 rate didn't go down. I was just wondering out loud whether Giants management didn't want Bumgarner to follow the same path as Cain, having a great strikeout rate in the minors while not "learning how to pitch".

    And what is wrong with "MadBum"?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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    • #17
      It's interesting that both MadBum and Tim Alderson had a significant drop in velocity this season. Coincidence?
      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
        It's interesting that both MadBum and Tim Alderson had a significant drop in velocity this season. Coincidence?
        I think people make too much of this at this early period in a pitchers development. I was a pitcher myself at that age, and I know firsthand how velocity can come & go throughout the year. This is why I was so against the Tim Alderson trade on the basis that he velocity was down this year and he was no longer a top prospect. A pitcher at this tender age is still developing arm strength and is prone to velocity decrease if arm speed is lost due to tiredness. It's probable Madbum and Alderson have never pitched this many innings in their career, so despite the fact they may not be feeling tired, they probably are tired. This subtlety can drop velocity noticeably.

        So again, I wouldn't be concerned with the velocity decrease of Bumgarner. If at age 23 & after pitching 150 IP consistently in the minors for a couple years he's still topping out at 90MPH, then I'd be concerned. Same with Tim Alderson, which is why I still think odds are good with his 6'6 body and great control he will be a good ML pitcher.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan View Post
          I think people make too much of this at this early period in a pitchers development. I was a pitcher myself at that age, and I know firsthand how velocity can come & go throughout the year. This is why I was so against the Tim Alderson trade on the basis that he velocity was down this year and he was no longer a top prospect. A pitcher at this tender age is still developing arm strength and is prone to velocity decrease if arm speed is lost due to tiredness. It's probable Madbum and Alderson have never pitched this many innings in their career, so despite the fact they may not be feeling tired, they probably are tired. This subtlety can drop velocity noticeably.

          So again, I wouldn't be concerned with the velocity decrease of Bumgarner. If at age 23 & after pitching 150 IP consistently in the minors for a couple years he's still topping out at 90MPH, then I'd be concerned. Same with Tim Alderson, which is why I still think odds are good with his 6'6 body and great control he will be a good ML pitcher.
          Some good insight. Given that MadBum is just 20 it shouldn't be a large concern yet.
          Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan View Post
            I think people make too much of this at this early period in a pitchers development. I was a pitcher myself at that age, and I know firsthand how velocity can come & go throughout the year. This is why I was so against the Tim Alderson trade on the basis that he velocity was down this year and he was no longer a top prospect. A pitcher at this tender age is still developing arm strength and is prone to velocity decrease if arm speed is lost due to tiredness. It's probable Madbum and Alderson have never pitched this many innings in their career, so despite the fact they may not be feeling tired, they probably are tired. This subtlety can drop velocity noticeably.

            So again, I wouldn't be concerned with the velocity decrease of Bumgarner. If at age 23 & after pitching 150 IP consistently in the minors for a couple years he's still topping out at 90MPH, then I'd be concerned. Same with Tim Alderson, which is why I still think odds are good with his 6'6 body and great control he will be a good ML pitcher.
            Neither Alderson or Bumgarner has thrown as many innings this year as they did last year.

            No comment on this, just saying.
            San Francisco Giants, World Series Champions in 2010, 2012, and 2014!!!

            "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts" ~ Albert Einstein

            "Royals wear crowns, but Champions Kiss the Ring" ~ Jeremy Affeldt

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            • #21
              That's a good point. It may indeed have nothing to do with tiredness. With some other young pitchers logging increased innings it may be a factor. But it may also be that at 20 years old, the body is still developing and gaining strength. Their arms are still likely adapting to the constant micro tearing of tendons and muscles in the arm after starts. This becomes less of a factor when the body is fully developed and muscles are completely formed.

              Whether the velocity decrease has anything to do with the factors I just mentioned is just speculation; but I can say it's a common occurrence in young pitchers. It just depends on the pitcher. Sometimes velocity never recovers and hopefully thats not the case here. We'll know for sure in 2-3 years if he's still throwing 89; right away if he's throwing 94 in spring training.:crossfingers:

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