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#1 player in Cardinals history

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JessePopHaines16 View Post
    I never said that pujols will be the next stan musial i just said that in my opinion pujols will surpass musial as the greatest cardinal ever, but then again that is just my opinion.
    That is what I replied to. Pujols has a long way to go to surpass Musial as the greatest Cardinal.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by hubkittel View Post
      A couple of points:

      -This is Musial in a cake walk.

      -Even if Pujols were to put up better numbers over the course of his career, which is not a given, he would never be able to take Musial's place. There's something distant about Pujols that seems to keep the fans from completely embracing him. I don't know what it is-personality, money, culture-but Pujols is no Musial. It was the combination of Musial's on-the-field talent and his personality that endears him to the fans, gives him the place in Cardinal history that he has, and makes this debate pretty much unnecessary.

      -There is no guarantee that Pujols will finish his career as a Cardinal. It's a scary thought but at some point Pujols may decide to leave for greener pastures.
      I agree with this assessment - Stan is The Man. It may be that Albert will go on and put up huge career number, ones that may even rival Stan Musial, but i honestly cant see anyone else being named the All Time Cardinal other then Stan the Man.

      The good question is who would be second in line - my vote would be Hornsby, even with part of his career being in different teams.

      G Rizzle

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      • #18
        Based on longevity Stan's the man. Hornsby might have made it had he played longer for the Cards. Pujols may claim this title in 10 years or so if he continues to play the way he has.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by KCGHOST View Post
          That is what I replied to. Pujols has a long way to go to surpass Musial as the greatest Cardinal.
          If career value is your sole definition of greatness, then absolutely!!

          I do think that Pujols is about as skilled at the plate as Musial was. Okay, perhaps he's not quite as great as The Man, but you gotta believe he's close!! It's very unlikely he'll pile up the career totals Stan did, given that Albert is injury prone and plays all-out, always thinking double out of the box on every single. I also think Albert has become a better fielder than Stan ever was, and an outstanding baserunner (which Stan also was).

          So, I'd say through their 8th seasons, it's pretty close. We'll see what the next 10-15 years bring. As a sidebar; let's say the perfect confluence of events occurs, and Albert stays injury free till after age 40, with a normal aging pattern.

          Could Pujols end up perceived as the greatest player of all time?

          Comment


          • #20
            I wasn't paying attention and accidentally clicked on Ozzie Smith, so apologies when people are reading the poll. I've just been reading about Stan and how highly he's rated by the sabermetricians...how is Pujols looking in his career to date against Stan, I wonder? Reading this about Albert - "the first player in MLB history to start his career with eight seasons of at least 30 HR, 100 RBI, a .300 BA and 99 runs", you've got to think there could be a Pujols Street near Busch stadium sometime soon.
            Last edited by Famous Mortimer; 09-24-2008, 03:04 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by OhioBoy View Post
              Shall we string him up by his toenails?
              I wouldn't. Stan Musial was the greatest player. Rogers Hornsby had some of the greatest seasons with the bat.

              But Ken Boyer was a special player. A terrific hitter, fielder - he could do it all. More than that though, Kenny was a leader. Which is why he was team captain when the great Musial was still with the team.

              Ken Boyer was my favorite player when I was a young lad.

              But I voted for Musial as the greatest player who ever played for the Cardinals.

              However, as stated, I would never string up a guy for voting for Ken Boyer.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by csh19792001 View Post
                If career value is your sole definition of greatness, then absolutely!!

                I do think that Pujols is about as skilled at the plate as Musial was. Okay, perhaps he's not quite as great as The Man, but you gotta believe he's close!! It's very unlikely he'll pile up the career totals Stan did, given that Albert is injury prone and plays all-out, always thinking double out of the box on every single. I also think Albert has become a better fielder than Stan ever was, and an outstanding baserunner (which Stan also was).

                So, I'd say through their 8th seasons, it's pretty close. We'll see what the next 10-15 years bring. As a sidebar; let's say the perfect confluence of events occurs, and Albert stays injury free till after age 40, with a normal aging pattern.

                Could Pujols end up perceived as the greatest player of all time?
                Through 8 years, Albert has matched up very well with Musial. His OPS+ numbers track very similarly, and his defense is probably a tad better - he even gets a slight boost for playing some 3B as well. Another negative point for Musial, 3 of those first 8 seasons were during the talent-depleted war years. I have no problem saying that Albert has been better through 8 years than Musial, but...

                of course Musial continued at that pace for a long, long time. Albert has a lot of great baseball to play to reach Musial's total amount of production.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                • #23
                  Does anyone know about Stan the Man's health?
                  Red Sox/Cardinal Fan -- Best of Both Worlds.

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                  • #24
                    Stan is the Man

                    Obviously there has been no greater Cardinal than Musial. I know his years in St. Louis were limited but doesn't Big Mac deserve an honorable mention on this poll?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      At this point it's Stan Musial and no one else is close. If Pujols can continue his pace into the twilight of his career then he may have an argument. But what exactly is the question, "value" or "greatness". Stan played in a much different era where fans treated players very differently. We can't expect 21st century baseball fans to have the same reverence for Pujols that 1940s-1950s baseball had for Musial. So to use that against Pujols is unfair. Plus there is a cultural dynamic with Stan having kind of a good old boy, "awe shucks" image and Pujols being Dominican born player.

                      And why is Bob Gibson not in the poll?
                      Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-12-2009, 12:57 PM.
                      Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

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                      • #26
                        Stan Musial....no further voting is needed.

                        If Pujols plays at this pace for another 12-15 years, maybe he would be mentioned with Musial and Hornsby.

                        "Old sour puss" is good, but Musial gets my vote.

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