Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Unretired Numbers

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Unretired Numbers

    I was just looking up some of the numbers worn by past Cardinals greats and was wondering if anyone else thinks that some of these should be retired by the franchise? I don't know how they make the final decisions on this, and maybe someone can enlighten me on that, but I'd like to see some of these go up on that OF wall at Busch. Lets see if anyone else agrees on some of these, or has some numbers of their own that I missed.

    Here's my list of possibles (not real fanatical about some of them, just seeing if anyone would agree):

    Those worn by Hall of Famers:

    3- Frankie Frisch wore this number as player/MGR of the 1930s Cardinals teams, including the '34 Champs (worn by Beltran currently).
    7- Joe Medwick wore this number in the 1930s, including '34 (WS Champs) and '37 when he won the NL MVP and Triple Crown (Holliday currently)
    10- John Mize, also Tony LaRussa and it is on the wall, but I think the Big Cat should get some love too!
    32- Steve Carlton who was a starter on the '67 Champs and '68 NL Champs, won 20 in his last year in St. Louis

    Those that could end up in the Hall of Fame (retired):

    15- Jim Edmonds the great CF and middle of the order hitter, '04 NL Champs and '06 WS Champs leader, won many GGs in CF.
    23- Ted Simmons, who I think SHOULD already be in the Hall, and was a Cardinal great throughout the 1970s.
    25- Mark McGwire, extremely controversial but will all that change in the future? Will he eventually go to the Hall with the others from that era?
    37- Keith Hernandez the 1979 co-MVP and leader of the 1982 WS Champs. Great fielding 1B who some think should be in the Hall.

    Those that were key cogs in Championship teams (retired), these are the ones where I have the least support (except McGee):

    13- Mort Cooper great pitcher in the 1940s.
    21- Curt Flood the excellent fielding CF and WS Champ in '64 and '67, also on the NL Champ '68 team.
    28- Tom Herr the solid fielding and hitting 2B and Ozzie's DP partner on the '82 Champs and the NL Champs of '85 and '87
    31- Harry Brecheen won 3 games in the 1946 World Series vs the Red Sox and Ted Williams.
    51- Willie McGee won the '85 MVP and was a 3 time GG CF, played on all of Whitey's WS teams and the '82 Champs got him his Redbird ring.

    Those that were key Cardinals players that didn't win a World Series (not HoF either) and retired (again, very little real support here):

    16- Ray Lankford, the Cardinal star of the forgettable 1990s, who helped lead the team to the 1996 NLCS and also on the amazing '04 NL Champs
    30- John Tudor had that unbelievable '85 season with 21 W, 1.93 ERA, 10 SHO, pitched for the '85 and '87 NL Champs (.705 W% in 125 GS as a Cardinal)

    Those active players that led to World Series success:

    4- Yadier Molina, one of the greatest C of all time, on all 3 of our last World Series teams and won it all with clutch performances in '06 and '11.
    5- Albert Pujols, enough said.
    27- Scott Rolen who is arguably one of the best 3B of all time and certainly of his generation, on the '04 NL Champs and '06 WS Champs.
    29- Chris Carpenter, enough said.

    What do you think? Anyone think we should honor any of these former players (or current after they retire) by retiring their numbers? Anyone else? I know there isn't much support for the majority of these former World Series Champs that weren't Hall of Fame guys, but they all played a huge roll in the success of the Cardinals franchise.
    Last edited by Herr28; 03-08-2013, 09:29 AM. Reason: Spelling
    "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

  • #2
    Yeah there are some numbers that Cardinals need to retire but have yet to do so but Ray Lankford is not the #16 that belongs there. The #16 that belongs there is the guy in which my screen name represents in Jesse "Pop" Haines. 18 years with the cardinals from 1920-37 (2nd only to Musial), 210 wins (2nd only to Bob Gibson), 3 world series rings in 26, 31, and 34 which ties him with just as many rings as Musial himself and was probably considered the classiest Cardinal player to ever play the game until Musial came into town. Wore #16 from 32-37 when teams had to do so.

    Comment


    • #3
      Mize, Frisch and Medwick are the three biggest omissions. I am pretty indifferent on the rest. Too many retired numbers will water down the honor. Pujols deserves it, eventually.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

      Comment


      • #4
        No previous players need a number retired imo, with Frisch and Medwick being closest. As for current players, we'll see. 5 (and probably 4)
        "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StanTheMan View Post
          No previous players need a number retired imo, with Frisch and Medwick being closest. As for current players, we'll see. 5 (and probably 4)
          The three guys I mentioned were all a lot better players than Sutter and Mize and Frisch much better than Boyer. They should def. be honored. If nothing else, because the not the vast majority of Card fans, even some hardcore fans probably have no idea than Mize or Frisch existed.
          1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

          1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

          1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


          The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
          The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

          Comment


          • #6
            Well you have to ask yourself this in terms of watered down. How many retired numbers due teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, Braves, and Giants have? I know the Yankees have a ton it seems. 17 to be exact. In basketball the Boston Celtics have like 24 names retired all together. I think though that you need to be careful and pick guys who were super important to your team and their success. Medwick, Mize, Haines, and a few more should be up there imo. The Cardinals statues imo though are fine. Don't need to build a statue for every retired number of anybody who was important to you organization.

            Comment


            • #7
              Comparison to the Yankees? With more than twice as many World Series appearances than the Cards' 18? Seems like an illogical comparison.
              "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by StanTheMan View Post
                Comparison to the Yankees? With more than twice as many World Series appearances than the Cards' 18? Seems like an illogical comparison.

                Cardinals might not have as many world series as the Yankees but they are 3-2 vs them in their series matchup giving the Ruth/Gehrig and the Dimaggio Lead yankees their only losses in 26 and 42 as well as ending Mantle, Berra, and Maris era run in 64. Also the Cardinals have had just as many greats pass through their organization that helped them win those 11 titles as the Yankees have who won their 27 titles. Cardinals just didn't keep certain people around longer that probably could have helped them win more.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                  Mize, Frisch and Medwick are the three biggest omissions. I am pretty indifferent on the rest. Too many retired numbers will water down the honor. Pujols deserves it, eventually.
                  Yep, Frisch, Mize and Medwick would be my choices. I mean, c'mon, these guys had great seasons of their Hall of Fame careers while with the Redbirds. Why not retire their numbers? The VAST majority of the guys were only there to get us talking about the Cardinals while we were waiting for games to start. Sorry, but that was really the inspiration behind the entire thread originally! Just wanted to talk Cardinals with some fellow Redbird fans! I don't really care if none of these numbers get put on the OF wall or not. I would like to see those 3 go up, however, and also followed by Pujols (5), Molina (4) and even Carpenter (29). Doubt anyone would support him either, but he was an ace and excellent post season competitor like few others that have worn the "Birds on the Bat". Those 3 were there for 2 World Series titles and another appearance (2004). The core of maybe the best team in baseball from 2004-2006.

                  Anyway, good to see some opinions on some of these guys! Always love talking about this wonderful team! GO CARDINALS!!!
                  "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Having attended 6 different World Series myself I'm very aware of all of that. Can't say I agree at all with the last sentence however, especially as the team is well know for acquiring players and having them achieve more than they have recently, sometimes more than at any time previously. Dave Duncan did just that countless times recently for example.
                    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Cardinals erred with Boyer, Sutter and Gussie Busch (85), IMO. They are planning a team Hall of Fame when they finally reopen their museum perhaps next spring. It should be a second level of recognition below retired numbers. Too bad they can't undo the earlier mistakes, though.
                      Brian Walton
                      TheCardinalNation.com/TheCardinalNationBlog.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by domeboys View Post
                        The Cardinals erred with Boyer, Sutter and Gussie Busch (85), IMO. They are planning a team Hall of Fame when they finally reopen their museum perhaps next spring. It should be a second level of recognition below retired numbers. Too bad they can't undo the earlier mistakes, though.

                        I believe the Cardinals have always had a team HOF. Just hasn't been open in a while with the delay to ballpark village and stuff. As for me the numbers I would truly retire are of course Haines #16, Medwick's #7, Frisch and Mize. Pujols will end up getting a statue along with his number retired. Probably the same with Yadier and Carpenter.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          85, although unconventional as well as being a number no player has ever wanted to wear, was a fantastic gesture... recognizing perhaps the most important person in recent franchise history, maybe ever.

                          Musial, Rickey, Gussie, in no particular order.
                          "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Did we do anything for Branch Rickey and what he did for us?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JessePopHaines16 View Post
                              Did we do anything for Branch Rickey and what he did for us?
                              Well, if Jack Buck gets a mic up on the wall, perhaps we could put a fedora and huge stogie up there with "BR" under it! Thanks for the minor league system, and thanks for screwing us on Yogi when you were on your way to Brooklyn!
                              "It ain't braggin' if you can do it." Dizzy Dean

                              Comment

                              Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X