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  • Cardinals Winter 16-17

    The Cards have already unloaded Hazelbaker and Kiekhefer on waivers, opening up a couple of roster spots. I wonder if that is an indicator that there will be a lot of trading this winter to try to solve their issues.. While keeping Matheny, of course.

    Anybody like to nominate affordable players you'd like to see in Cards unis, and who you would hang out as trade bait? Moss, Walden and Jerome Williams are the only free agents they are likely to lose.

    Former Cardinals who are available as free agents include Pierzynski, Descalso, Reynolds, Rasmus, Boyer, Salas, Bourjos, Jay, Bellisle, Rzepczynsik. They did better with those guys than without them.
    Last edited by jtur88; 11-05-2016, 06:07 PM.

  • #2
    I think the Team was pretty solid last season. they just had some bad luck and ran into a juggernaut Team.

    their Position Player core is still relatively Young and without any big holes. maybe they can get one more starter and a bullpen arm, otherwise just hope you get another year out of Molina, have the power guys repeat and hope for starter health.

    the free Agent market doesn't offer much and for trades I don't see an obvious move but some moves certainly will be made, but I think it will be minor ones. maybe you can get a better backup C and somebody for second (although I think wong won't be that bad).

    defense was an issue but that is just what this Team is now and there are more important things than defense (defense is more important than People thought but it clearly is number 3 after hitting and pitching).
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dominik View Post
      I think the Team was pretty solid last season. they just had some bad luck and ran into a juggernaut Team.

      their Position Player core is still relatively Young and without any big holes. maybe they can get one more starter and a bullpen arm, otherwise just hope you get another year out of Molina, have the power guys repeat and hope for starter health.

      the free Agent market doesn't offer much and for trades I don't see an obvious move but some moves certainly will be made, but I think it will be minor ones. maybe you can get a better backup C and somebody for second (although I think wong won't be that bad).

      defense was an issue but that is just what this Team is now and there are more important things than defense (defense is more important than People thought but it clearly is number 3 after hitting and pitching).
      Mo has already said they will aggressivley pursue an option for CF. hopefully a great defense/sneaky good offensive guy. 3B could be another upgrade spot of they fewr Peralta might be done. I can't imagine a scenario in which Marp doesn't play 1B. With Duke and Maness out, they will have to get a little bullpen help.

      Regardless of what they do - they will be around the same spot they were in last year; a good but not great team going for a wild card spot. Around 87-89 wins if I had to guess.

      Defense may be #3... But you can upgrade it a heck of a lot cheaper than the other two. They can improve significantly in CF by upgrading defense and still have money to ugrade somewhere else instead of say way overspending for a simialry impactful offenseive upgrade with Flowler or something.
      Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 11-07-2016, 05:37 AM.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

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      • #4
        Originally posted by jtur88 View Post
        The Cards have already unloaded Hazelbaker and Kiekhefer on waivers, opening up a couple of roster spots. I wonder if that is an indicator that there will be a lot of trading this winter to try to solve their issues.. While keeping Matheny, of course.

        Anybody like to nominate affordable players you'd like to see in Cards unis, and who you would hang out as trade bait? Moss, Walden and Jerome Williams are the only free agents they are likely to lose.

        Former Cardinals who are available as free agents include Pierzynski, Descalso, Reynolds, Rasmus, Boyer, Salas, Bourjos, Jay, Bellisle, Rzepczynsik. They did better with those guys than without them.
        The Cardinals also did better with Ty Wiggington than wihtout him. Should they bring him back?
        None of those guys are good enough to spend limited resources on and none of them will be back.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
          The Cardinals also did better with Ty Wiggington than wihtout him. Should they bring him back?
          None of those guys are good enough to spend limited resources on and none of them will be back.
          defense is definitely cheaper to upgrade but it is getting more expensive. heyward wouldn't have gotten that contract (even if you adjust for Baseball Dollars of that time) 10 years ago as a 110-115 OPS+ OFer (who can Play CF but Plays best in right).

          saw a chat with FG prospect writer longenhagen and he thinks that it is by design that the Cards Play some Players a Little out of Position to get more offensive production at of the expense of a Little defense (got asked about a guy in the minors and answered that. maybe the pendulum has already swung too far and defensive Players are overrated?
          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dominik View Post
            defense is definitely cheaper to upgrade but it is getting more expensive. heyward wouldn't have gotten that contract (even if you adjust for Baseball Dollars of that time) 10 years ago as a 110-115 OPS+ OFer (who can Play CF but Plays best in right).

            saw a chat with FG prospect writer longenhagen and he thinks that it is by design that the Cards Play some Players a Little out of Position to get more offensive production at of the expense of a Little defense (got asked about a guy in the minors and answered that. maybe the pendulum has already swung too far and defensive Players are overrated?
            It isn't about defense vs. offense. Each run saved/created is worth the same. The Cards need to worry about creating the largest gap between runs created and runs allowed as possible. With their budget - getting sneaky good players is the best way to do it. A 0 rbat/20 rfield guy is just as good as a 20 rbat guy and 0 rfield guy and a lot cheaper because people who don't understand baseball don't think he is as good.

            It is MM's design, not the organization's.. Mo got him the best defensive CF in baseball and MM refused to play him.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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            • #7
              you mean borjous?

              so the Price for defense has increased but not as much as it should considering market value?

              BTW congrats to your new president.
              I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dominik View Post
                you mean borjous?

                so the Price for defense has increased but not as much as it should considering market value?

                BTW congrats to your new president.
                1. Yes to point one.
                2. As a pro-lifer, I am hopeful the things that happened last night will help save the lives of a lot of unborn babies. The rest of me is sick to my stomach. Our new president, by the way.

                So Bill Cosby is a serial rapist, Donald Trump is the President-elect and the Cubs won a WS. This is a very weird and very bad new world we live in.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                Comment


                • #9
                  It costs $245,000 to raise a child to the age of 18. How many people who voted for Trump have volunteered to raise one of those unborh babies he will save? Mo can get a middle reliever for that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jtur88 View Post
                    It costs $245,000 to raise a child to the age of 18. How many people who voted for Trump have volunteered to raise one of those unborh babies he will save? Mo can get a middle reliever for that.
                    Funny you should mention that. After our second miscarriage (one stillbirth), my wife and I are looking into adoption right now, in fact.
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                      It isn't about defense vs. offense. Each run saved/created is worth the same. The Cards need to worry about creating the largest gap between runs created and runs allowed as possible. With their budget - getting sneaky good players is the best way to do it. A 0 rbat/20 rfield guy is just as good as a 20 rbat guy and 0 rfield guy and a lot cheaper because people who don't understand baseball don't think he is as good.

                      It is MM's design, not the organization's.. Mo got him the best defensive CF in baseball and MM refused to play him.
                      not sure it is just MM. sure he got borjous who did not play but the organization brought up, traded for or signed quite a few mediocre defenders especially in the IF (gyorko, diaz, peralta) .

                      I asume the FO would have done something if they did not want MM to play bad defenders up the middle.
                      I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dominik View Post
                        not sure it is just MM. sure he got borjous who did not play but the organization brought up, traded for or signed quite a few mediocre defenders especially in the IF (gyorko, diaz, peralta) .

                        I asume the FO would have done something if they did not want MM to play bad defenders up the middle.
                        For a long time, they played Marp at 3B and Gyrko at 2B when Peralta was hurt and Wong couldn't hit a ball out of a paper sack. When Peralta came back and Wong actually hit okay, they played more than not and Marp moved a lot to 1B. The played th poor defender when the gap in offense was huge. If it is close, the defender will play.

                        The FO tries to out id the Cubs for a buge contract for a defensive minded player and picked up Tejada to be Peralta's backup at SS instead of options who were better hitters. The FO does cae about defense, but in the end, the player who creates the largest gap in runs scored/allowed is who will play. As it shoud be. Its just that defense is a way to make that happen cheaper than the other way.
                        Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 11-13-2016, 09:55 PM.
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A huge blow for the Cards was definitely the death of taveras. I think he was rated a top3 prospect in Baseball and could have been the Young Superstar hitter they would have needed. he should have been to the Cards what kris bryant is to the cubs.

                          of course prospects can fail too but those top5 Overall prospects do make it more often than not especially as hitters.

                          I think that Player is missing currently. a lot of solid Players and even some very good ones (Mcarp) but not that exiting Young Superstar. that was really a bad break for the cards while the cubs also had some luck because they hit with almost anyone of their top prospects and trades. of course epstein did a great Job but also almost every trade and top prospect worked which usually is not the case.
                          I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cards have allegedly signed Brett Cecil (pending physical) to a 4-year deal.

                            Apparently, Cecil, 30, will fill the void created by the absence of lefty reliever Zach Duke, who is out for the 2017 season.

                            A lot to pay for a set-up guy for Oh, but this looks to be the future. Starters go 6, then three closers.

                            Check me if I'm wrong here, but Cecil has never served as a bona fide closer, has he?
                            Check us out at http://baseballtalk.freeforums.org/i...50ac174cd8970f

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mudge View Post
                              Cards have allegedly signed Brett Cecil (pending physical) to a 4-year deal.

                              Apparently, Cecil, 30, will fill the void created by the absence of lefty reliever Zach Duke, who is out for the 2017 season.

                              A lot to pay for a set-up guy for Oh, but this looks to be the future. Starters go 6, then three closers.

                              Check me if I'm wrong here, but Cecil has never served as a bona fide closer, has he?
                              They are desperate for a LHRP. Maybe a slight overpay, but he has been a very good reliever. If Rosenthal is healthy, the pen should be very good. Several out of Lynn, Wacha, Gonzales, Lyons, Reyes, and Wever will be in the pen along with Oh, Siegrest, Cecil, and Rosental.
                              1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                              1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                              1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                              The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                              The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                              Comment

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