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  • Dodgers/Senators connection

    After poster Flatbush Flock started a thread on August 1, discussing the DODGERS/Orioles connection, I became curious as to how many players had spent time with both the BROOKLYN DODGERS and the Washington Senators*.

    *For those of you unfamiliar with the history of the Senators, there were two different franchises. The original Senators franchise played in Washington from 1901 through 1960 when Calvin Griffith (Clark Griffith's adopted nephew) moved the team to Minnesota to become the Minnesota Twins.

    The expansion Senators franchise played in Washington for 11 years (1961-1971) before Bob :grouchy Short, a Walter O'Malley wannabe, moved the second incarnation of the Senators to Arlington, Texas, where they became the Texas Rangers.

    There were 72 players who played for both the DODGERS and the original Senators. There are some pretty familiar names here: Rocky Bridges, Wes Ferrell, Joe Judge, Dutch Leonard, Bobo Newsom, Wayne Terwilliger, Tom Zachary and some rather obscure names as well.

    In alphabetical order: (*=pitchers)

    Morrie Aderholt
    Eddie Ainsmith*
    Mel Almada
    John Anderson

    Win Ballou*
    Turner Barber
    Moe Berg (one of my personal favorites)
    Joe Black* (did anyone recall that he played with the 1957 Senators?)
    Rocky Bridges
    Lloyd Brown*
    George Browne

    Ben Chapman*
    Sam Crane
    Lave Cross
    Roy Cullenbine
    Nick Cullop

    Gene DeMontreville
    Patsy Donovan
    Jack Doyle
    Bull Durham*

    Bruce Edwards
    Kid Eberfield
    Bones Ely

    Alex Ferguson*
    Wes Ferrell*

    Doc Gessler
    Carden Gullenwater
    Tony Guliani (any relation to Rudy?)
    Bert Griffith

    Harry Harper*
    Joe Harris
    Al Hollingsworth*
    Bonnie Hollingsworth*

    Hal Janvrin
    Tom Jordan
    Joe Judge

    Alex Kampouris
    Frank Kitson*
    Elmer Klumpp

    Lyn Lary
    Dutch Leonard*
    Mickey Livingston

    Heinie Manush
    Carmen Mauro
    Mike McCormick
    Irish Meusel
    Wally Millies
    Gene Moore
    Ray Moore*

    Bobo Newsom*

    Mickey O'Neil
    Frank O'Rourke

    Babe Phelps
    Val Picinich

    Doc Reisling*
    Dick Robertson*
    Dutch Reuther*
    Jack Ryan

    Johnny Schmitz*
    Jimmy Sebring
    Fred Sington
    Tony Smith
    Roy Spencer
    Stuffy Stewart

    Danny Taylor
    Wayne Terwilliger
    Sloppy Thurston*

    Elmer Valo
    Joe Vosmik

    Jimmy Wasdell

    Earl Yingling*

    Tom Zachary*

    Only three players ever spent time with the expansion Senators and the DODGERS:

    Ed Roebuck*
    Johnny Roseboro
    Don Zimmer

    I would be remiss, however, if I did not mention that the much beloved Gil Hodges managed the expansion Senators from mid-1964 through 1967.

    I hope you enjoyed the list, and welcome comments or corrections.
    "For the Washington Senators, the worst time of the year is the baseball season." Roger Kahn

    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aa3rt
    After poster Flatbush Flock started a thread on August 1, discussing the DODGERS/Orioles connection, I became curious as to how many players had spent time with both the BROOKLYN DODGERS and the Washington Senators*.

    *For those of you unfamiliar with the history of the Senators, there were two different franchises. The original Senators franchise played in Washington from 1901 through 1960 when Calvin Griffith (Clark Griffith's adopted nephew) moved the team to Minnesota to become the Minnesota Twins.

    The expansion Senators franchise played in Washington for 11 years (1961-1971) before Bob :grouchy Short, a Walter O'Malley wannabe, moved the second incarnation of the Senators to Arlington, Texas, where they became the Texas Rangers.

    There were 72 players who played for both the DODGERS and the original Senators. There are some pretty familiar names here: Rocky Bridges, Wes Ferrell, Joe Judge, Dutch Leonard, Bobo Newsom, Wayne Terwilliger, Tom Zachary and some rather obscure names as well.

    In alphabetical order: (*=pitchers)

    Morrie Aderholt
    Eddie Ainsmith*
    Mel Almada
    John Anderson

    Win Ballou*
    Turner Barber
    Moe Berg (one of my personal favorites)
    Joe Black* (did anyone recall that he played with the 1957 Senators?)
    Rocky Bridges
    Lloyd Brown*
    George Browne

    Ben Chapman*
    Sam Crane
    Lave Cross
    Roy Cullenbine
    Nick Cullop

    Gene DeMontreville
    Patsy Donovan
    Jack Doyle
    Bull Durham*

    Bruce Edwards
    Kid Eberfield
    Bones Ely

    Alex Ferguson*
    Wes Ferrell*

    Doc Gessler
    Carden Gullenwater
    Tony Guliani (any relation to Rudy?)
    Bert Griffith

    Harry Harper*
    Joe Harris
    Al Hollingsworth*
    Bonnie Hollingsworth*

    Hal Janvrin
    Tom Jordan
    Joe Judge

    Alex Kampouris
    Frank Kitson*
    Elmer Klumpp

    Lyn Lary
    Dutch Leonard*
    Mickey Livingston

    Heinie Manush
    Carmen Mauro
    Mike McCormick
    Irish Meusel
    Wally Millies
    Gene Moore
    Ray Moore*

    Bobo Newsom*

    Mickey O'Neil
    Frank O'Rourke

    Babe Phelps
    Val Picinich

    Doc Reisling*
    Dick Robertson*
    Dutch Reuther*
    Jack Ryan

    Johnny Schmitz*
    Jimmy Sebring
    Fred Sington
    Tony Smith
    Roy Spencer
    Stuffy Stewart

    Danny Taylor
    Wayne Terwilliger
    Sloppy Thurston*

    Elmer Valo
    Joe Vosmik

    Jimmy Wasdell

    Earl Yingling*

    Tom Zachary*

    Only three players ever spent time with the expansion Senators and the DODGERS:

    Ed Roebuck*
    Johnny Roseboro
    Don Zimmer

    I would be remiss, however, if I did not mention that the much beloved Gil Hodges managed the expansion Senators from mid-1964 through 1967.

    I hope you enjoyed the list, and welcome comments or corrections.
    Both Cookie Lavagetto and Charlie Dressen managed the original
    Senators.

    Brownie31

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Brownie31
      Both Cookie Lavagetto and Charlie Dressen managed the original Senators.

      Brownie31
      Thanks Brownie 31, Charlie Dressen guided the Senators in 1955, 1956 and after twenty games in the 1957 season he was replaced by Cookie Lavagetto who stayed at the helm until the end of 1960.

      Senators Managers
      "For the Washington Senators, the worst time of the year is the baseball season." Roger Kahn

      "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aa3rt
        After poster Flatbush Flock started a thread on August 1, discussing the DODGERS/Orioles connection, I became curious as to how many players had spent time with both the BROOKLYN DODGERS and the Washington Senators*.

        *For those of you unfamiliar with the history of the Senators, there were two different franchises. The original Senators franchise played in Washington from 1901 through 1960 when Calvin Griffith (Clark Griffith's adopted nephew) moved the team to Minnesota to become the Minnesota Twins.

        The expansion Senators franchise played in Washington for 11 years (1961-1971) before Bob :grouchy Short, a Walter O'Malley wannabe, moved the second incarnation of the Senators to Arlington, Texas, where they became the Texas Rangers.

        There were 72 players who played for both the DODGERS and the original Senators. There are some pretty familiar names here: Rocky Bridges, Wes Ferrell, Joe Judge, Dutch Leonard, Bobo Newsom, Wayne Terwilliger, Tom Zachary and some rather obscure names as well.

        In alphabetical order: (*=pitchers)

        Morrie Aderholt
        Eddie Ainsmith*
        Mel Almada
        John Anderson

        Win Ballou*
        Turner Barber
        Moe Berg (one of my personal favorites)
        Joe Black* (did anyone recall that he played with the 1957 Senators?)
        Rocky Bridges
        Lloyd Brown*
        George Browne

        Ben Chapman*
        Sam Crane
        Lave Cross
        Roy Cullenbine
        Nick Cullop

        Gene DeMontreville
        Patsy Donovan
        Jack Doyle
        Bull Durham*

        Bruce Edwards
        Kid Eberfield
        Bones Ely

        Alex Ferguson*
        Wes Ferrell*

        Doc Gessler
        Carden Gullenwater
        Tony Guliani (any relation to Rudy?)
        Bert Griffith

        Harry Harper*
        Joe Harris
        Al Hollingsworth*
        Bonnie Hollingsworth*

        Hal Janvrin
        Tom Jordan
        Joe Judge

        Alex Kampouris
        Frank Kitson*
        Elmer Klumpp

        Lyn Lary
        Dutch Leonard*
        Mickey Livingston

        Heinie Manush
        Carmen Mauro
        Mike McCormick
        Irish Meusel
        Wally Millies
        Gene Moore
        Ray Moore*

        Bobo Newsom*

        Mickey O'Neil
        Frank O'Rourke

        Babe Phelps
        Val Picinich

        Doc Reisling*
        Dick Robertson*
        Dutch Reuther*
        Jack Ryan

        Johnny Schmitz*
        Jimmy Sebring
        Fred Sington
        Tony Smith
        Roy Spencer
        Stuffy Stewart

        Danny Taylor
        Wayne Terwilliger
        Sloppy Thurston*

        Elmer Valo
        Joe Vosmik

        Jimmy Wasdell

        Earl Yingling*

        Tom Zachary*

        Only three players ever spent time with the expansion Senators and the DODGERS:

        Ed Roebuck*
        Johnny Roseboro
        Don Zimmer

        I would be remiss, however, if I did not mention that the much beloved Gil Hodges managed the expansion Senators from mid-1964 through 1967.

        I hope you enjoyed the list, and welcome comments or corrections.

        Interesting group, Art!

        The Moe Berg you note I assume is the same Moe Berg who served as a spy for the USA during WWII. He certainly had an interesting "career", would you say?

        The Ben Chapman that you list. Is he the same Ben Chapman who gave OUR JACKIE such a hard time in 1947?

        c.

        Comment


        • #5
          Even though Hodges didn't have a winning record with the team, the fans didn't want him to leave Washington
          Last edited by 55 chmps; 08-04-2006, 12:37 PM.
          "It kills me to lose. If I'm a troublemaker, and I don't think that my temper makes me one, then it's because I can't stand losing. That's the way I am about winning, all I ever wanted to do was finish first."

          -Jackie Robinson

          55 and 56 chmps.... The two headed monster

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DODGER DEB
            Interesting group, Art!

            The Moe Berg you note I assume is the same Moe Berg who served as a spy for the USA during WWII. He certainly had an interesting "career", would you say?
            Yes, that's the same Moe Berg. Moe started his career with the Brooklyn team when they were known as the Robins in 1923. He actually started out as an infielder, but found himself catching when, playing for the White Sox, filled in after three Chicago catchers were injured in the span of a week.

            Moe Berg Career Record

            There have been at least 3 books written about Moe, one titled The Catcher Was A Spy is the one that comes immediately to mind. Yes, he most definitely led an interesting life!

            Originally posted by DODGER DEB
            The Ben Chapman that you list. Is he the same Ben Chapman who gave OUR JACKIE such a hard time in 1947?
            I'm afraid so. Mr. Chapman started his career with the Yankees in 1930 and over the course of 16 seasons also played with the Senators (twice), Red Sox, Indians, White Sox, Dodgers and Phillies. At the end of his career he was a player/manager for the Phillies, taking the helm 69 games into the 1945 season. He also managed in 1946, 1947 and for 79 games in 1948.

            Ben Chapman Career Record

            Phillies Manager's Records-check 1945-1948
            Last edited by Aa3rt; 08-04-2006, 12:55 PM.
            "For the Washington Senators, the worst time of the year is the baseball season." Roger Kahn

            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Aa3rt
              Yes, that's the same Moe Berg. Moe started his career with the Brooklyn team when they were known as the Robins in 1923. He actually started out as an infielder, but found himself catching when, playing for the White Sox, filled in after three Chicago catchers were injured in the span of a week.

              Moe Berg Career Record

              There have been at least 3 books written about Moe, one titled The Catcher Was A Spy is the one that comes immediately to mind. Yes, he most definitely led an interesting life!



              I'm afraid so. Mr. Chapman started his career with the Yankees in 1930 and over the course of 16 seasons also played with the Senators (twice), Red Sox, Indians, White Sox, Dodgers and Phillies. At the end of his career he was a player/manager for the Phillies, taking the helm 69 games into the 1945 season. He also managed in 1946, 1947 and for 79 games in 1948.

              Ben Chapman Career Record

              Phillies Manager's Records-check 1945-1948

              Thanks, Art, I appreciate the info.

              c.

              Comment


              • #8
                Excellent postings, Art.

                With no offense intended, I believe that it must have been depressing for Dodgers to leave the vibrant baseball place that Brooklyn was for Washington.
                Unless, of course, you remember that for some of them it was a chance to remain in the majors and get that pay check.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by EbtsFldGuy
                  Excellent postings, Art.
                  Thank you!

                  Originally posted by EbtsFldGuy
                  With no offense intended, I believe that it must have been depressing for Dodgers to leave the vibrant baseball place that Brooklyn was for Washington.
                  Unless, of course, you remember that for some of them it was a chance to remain in the majors and get that pay check.
                  No offense taken-the original Senators were pretty much a second division club. They did finish 1st in 1924, 1925 & 1933 with their only World Series crown coming in 1924 over the New York Giants. After 1933, it was pretty much downhill. They did finish 4th in 1936, 2nd in 1943 & 45 and 4th in 1946. After WWII, the area around Griffith Stadium started deteriorating and the fans started staying away. With only 200 parking spaces, patrons had to rely on public transit. Clark Griffith died in October of 1955 and Calvin, having seen the instant success the Braves enjoyed in Milwaukee, started making overtures to any place he thought the grass was greener. (Including Los Angeles-we discussed this in a thread titled "The Los Angeles Senators?" here in the BROOKLYN forum a couple of years ago.)

                  When Calvin did leave, baseball, fearing loss of its anti-trust exemption, immediately expanded to include a "new" Washington team. The expansion Senators only ever enjoyed one winning season (1969) and, I believe, that if the 1962 Mets hadn't put on such a woeful performance in the media capital of the world, the 1963 Washington Senators (56 wins, 106 losses, 10th place, 48.5 games out of first) would be more well remembered as one of the worst expansion teams ever.

                  While I don't think playing in Washington quite equated to being banished to Siberia, I'm sure that every player who gets traded from a contender to a perennial "also ran" does feel a measure of disappointment.

                  One common thread I have heard and read about over the years though is how players in both BROOKLYN and Washington were a part of the neighborhood, almost "family". Despite their poor performance on the field, many players enjoyed their playing days in Washington.

                  BTW-two of the players listed-Bobo Newsom and Tom Zachary have the "distinction" of having played for the Philadelphia Athletics, St. Louis Browns and Washington Senators in addition to the DODGERS.
                  Last edited by Aa3rt; 08-04-2006, 09:15 PM.
                  "For the Washington Senators, the worst time of the year is the baseball season." Roger Kahn

                  "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aa3rt
                    Thanks Brownie 31, Charlie Dressen guided the Senators in 1955, 1956 and after twenty games in the 1957 season he was replaced by Cookie Lavagetto who stayed at the helm until the end of 1960.

                    Senators Managers
                    Aa3rt:

                    Several years ago, Mark Gavreau Judge, the grandson of
                    Senator/Dodger Joe Judge, wrote a very good book
                    entitled "Damn Senators" about the 1924 World Champion
                    Senators.

                    Joe Judge also served as baseball coach at Georgetown
                    University for a number of years.

                    The title is a pun on the '50s musical "Damn Yankees".
                    I highly recommend this book.

                    Brownie31

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brownie31
                      Aa3rt:

                      Several years ago, Mark Gavreau Judge, the grandson of
                      Senator/Dodger Joe Judge, wrote a very good book
                      entitled "Damn Senators" about the 1924 World Champion
                      Senators.

                      Joe Judge also served as baseball coach at Georgetown
                      University for a number of years.

                      The title is a pun on the '50s musical "Damn Yankees".
                      I highly recommend this book.

                      Brownie31
                      Actually I just purchased this book about three weekends ago. While I've read snippets, I haven't had the opportunity to read it from cover to cover yet, but am looking forward to it.
                      "For the Washington Senators, the worst time of the year is the baseball season." Roger Kahn

                      "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aa3rt
                        After poster Flatbush Flock started a thread on August 1, discussing the DODGERS/Orioles connection, I became curious as to how many players had spent time with both the BROOKLYN DODGERS and the Washington Senators*.

                        *For those of you unfamiliar with the history of the Senators, there were two different franchises. The original Senators franchise played in Washington from 1901 through 1960 when Calvin Griffith (Clark Griffith's adopted nephew) moved the team to Minnesota to become the Minnesota Twins.

                        The expansion Senators franchise played in Washington for 11 years (1961-1971) before Bob :grouchy Short, a Walter O'Malley wannabe, moved the second incarnation of the Senators to Arlington, Texas, where they became the Texas Rangers.

                        There were 72 players who played for both the DODGERS and the original Senators. There are some pretty familiar names here: Rocky Bridges, Wes Ferrell, Joe Judge, Dutch Leonard, Bobo Newsom, Wayne Terwilliger, Tom Zachary and some rather obscure names as well.

                        In alphabetical order: (*=pitchers)

                        Morrie Aderholt
                        Eddie Ainsmith*
                        Mel Almada
                        John Anderson

                        Win Ballou*
                        Turner Barber
                        Moe Berg (one of my personal favorites)
                        Joe Black* (did anyone recall that he played with the 1957 Senators?)
                        Rocky Bridges
                        Lloyd Brown*
                        George Browne

                        Ben Chapman*
                        Sam Crane
                        Lave Cross
                        Roy Cullenbine
                        Nick Cullop

                        Gene DeMontreville
                        Patsy Donovan
                        Jack Doyle
                        Bull Durham*

                        Bruce Edwards
                        Kid Eberfield
                        Bones Ely

                        Alex Ferguson*
                        Wes Ferrell*

                        Doc Gessler
                        Carden Gullenwater
                        Tony Guliani (any relation to Rudy?)
                        Bert Griffith

                        Harry Harper*
                        Joe Harris
                        Al Hollingsworth*
                        Bonnie Hollingsworth*

                        Hal Janvrin
                        Tom Jordan
                        Joe Judge

                        Alex Kampouris
                        Frank Kitson*
                        Elmer Klumpp

                        Lyn Lary
                        Dutch Leonard*
                        Mickey Livingston

                        Heinie Manush
                        Carmen Mauro
                        Mike McCormick
                        Irish Meusel
                        Wally Millies
                        Gene Moore
                        Ray Moore*

                        Bobo Newsom*

                        Mickey O'Neil
                        Frank O'Rourke

                        Babe Phelps
                        Val Picinich

                        Doc Reisling*
                        Dick Robertson*
                        Dutch Reuther*
                        Jack Ryan

                        Johnny Schmitz*
                        Jimmy Sebring
                        Fred Sington
                        Tony Smith
                        Roy Spencer
                        Stuffy Stewart

                        Danny Taylor
                        Wayne Terwilliger
                        Sloppy Thurston*

                        Elmer Valo
                        Joe Vosmik

                        Jimmy Wasdell

                        Earl Yingling*

                        Tom Zachary*

                        Only three players ever spent time with the expansion Senators and the DODGERS:

                        Ed Roebuck*
                        Johnny Roseboro
                        Don Zimmer

                        I would be remiss, however, if I did not mention that the much beloved Gil Hodges managed the expansion Senators from mid-1964 through 1967.

                        I hope you enjoyed the list, and welcome comments or corrections.
                        Thanks for the list. Don't forget that one of Gil's coaches with the Senators was our Rube Walker.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Flatbush Flock View Post
                          Thanks for the list. Don't forget that one of Gil's coaches with the Senators was our Rube Walker.
                          Frank Howard, Phil Ortega and Ken McMullen played with the expansion Senators and the L.A. Dodgers.

                          Comment

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