The Outfield Walls

[jaykay]

If you peek at an old photo, not only are you disqualified, but seven years of bad luck are sure to follow.

Who advertised on the outfield walls at Ebbets Field? Of course the clients weren't always the same, but I seem to recall quite a few advertisers occupying the identical locations year after year. Having said that, I am able to visualize only a few (and I'm not too sure about some of those). Your confirmations, denials and additions are most welcome. (The scoreboard, which has been well-documented elsewhere, need not concern us on this page - unless you insist.)

I remember Esquire Boot Polish, Gem Blades, Tydol Flying A Gasoline, The Brass Rail. Can it be possible - Goldenberg's Peanut Chews? That's as far as I go.

Trying to save face, let me point out that there was an opening (overhead door) in left-center for the grounds crew's equipment, another in straightaway center for the batting cage, and of course the double-door center field gate itself, through which fans could exit after the game (until those pleasant excursions were prohibited).

Not bad for someone who can't remember what he had for breakfast. (I just remebered!)

Now it's your turn.

[donzblock]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Bulova, Mobilgas, Van Heusen Shirts, Emerson TV and Radio, Burma Shave, Stadler's, Mennen, Schaefer, Manufacturers' Trust, and O'Malley Distrust.

[shlevine42]

RE: The Outfield Walls

The left field wall is a blank, but flanking the scoreboard were the signs you listed, plus, at least for a time, Van Heusen Shirts, Mobilgas (with the flying red horse) and Bulova.

As for radio sponsors, I remember Red's "Old Goldie" call for home runs, and I think Shaefer Beer bought time on Dodgers broadcasts, but I need help with any others.

[The Real McCoy]

RE: The Outfield Walls

In straightaway left field there was a Lucky Strike billboard (I assume the collective memory lapse on this item is due to everyone's clean living youthful lifestyle).

Preacher Roe's lone homerun dropped just over the Lucky sign, prompting a record number of innane references in the following day's paper..."luckily struck", "a strike of luck".

[jaykay]

RE: The Outfield Walls

What follows is on the level. (I wonder why he feels compelled to say that?)

We all realize how small, seemingly insignificant details have sometimes changed the course of history. The information I am about to reveal was triggered by Dr. McCoy's mention of Lucky Strike and its connection with one of the most amazing batting feats in Dodger annals.

Andre Baruch, later to become justly villified as the worst play-by-play announcer in baseball history, was for many years the announcer on Lucky Strike's "Your Hit Parade." It was rumored that he got the job with the Dodgers as a result of being under contract to the advertising agency that handled Lucky Strike - which I believe succeeded Old Gold as a radio sponsor and, as we have just been reminded, occupied hallowed space on the left-field wall. Anyway.....

Andre Baruch was married to Bea Wain, the vocalist with Larry Clinton's orchestra ("Deep Purple", "My Reverie"). Her actual name was Weinsier. One of her uncles, Michael Weinsier, was my father's boss. A dedicated Dodgers fan, Michael Weinsier had made a fortune in the plumbing supplies business. When the Brooklyn Trust Company, representing the Ebbets estate, put the team up for sale (early 1940s, as I recall), Michael Weinsier, along with a partner - a real estate broker named David Jaret - was among the serious bidders for the franchise, at a price of somewhere between $2-3 million. Needless to say, they were bidding against O'Malley, who clearly had the inside track as one of the lawyers employed by Brooklyn Trust.

I can tell you this, my friends: Michael Weinsier would not have moved the Dodgers to Los Angeles. We would not be crying on each other's shoulders on this message board. The New York Mets would not exist. How's that for revisionist history?

Maybe - just maybe - if he hadn't been able to get desirable real estate in Brooklyn (Jaret thought they could), he would have settled for Queens. But the team would not have been known as anything but the BROOKLYN Dodgers.

You have just read a tale known to very few. Every word of it is true. None of the names has been changed.

And so, my friends, as you ponder the mysteries of life and the fickleness of fate, remember what might have been - and almost was. To all, a good night. God bless.

[The Real McCoy]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Ah yes, "Two Gun Andy Baruch" as he was know around our old Crosley for his voice-over work on some long forgotten Western program. Ill suited though he was for baseball play/play, the man did have a melifluous tone along with features well suited to the radio medium. Didn't he have a brother also in the business, who fortunately did not follow him into sportscasting?

The advertising agency, at that time, for Luckies was Batten, Barton, Durstein and Osborne, commonly known as BBDO (just trying to be helpful).

As to your Mr Weinsier, the plumbing supplies king, I would respectfully point out that a man of such background would seem to be easy prey for the evil Moses to convince to move the team to a place called Flushing. The damnable Moses, after rejecting the logical location at Atlantic Avenue had offered the future home of the Mets to the redoubtable Counselor O'Malley, who rightly rejected it. Had the team moved to Queens, which is to Brooklyn, what Cleveland is to Brooklyn, the team, its heritage, its joie de vivre would have been swirling around the bowl in a matter of hours (again a certain poetic justice to the analogy but a travesty to the faithful in the Borough of Churches). If it had to be Queens then it might as well have been Los Angeles.

I can hear, now, the Coney Island argument being warmed up on the Main Line, and while there is some validity to that premise, it does not seem practical at that time. The amusement park still had some life left, and the location was cumbersome from a public transportation standpoint. Atlantic Avenue was the ideal location. Once Moses put the kibosh on that, the Dodgers were gone. I, for one, am happy they moved across the country. Having the team in Queens, and believe me, they wouldn't have been called the Queens Dodgers, or the New York Dodgers and certainly not the Brooklyn Dodgers, would have been an insult to injury situation.

[donzblock]

RE: The Outfield Walls

I would like this Michael Weinsier to explain why he did not up his bid. Was he nothing more than a tire kicker? And how reputable could he have been if he would have contemplated moving the team to Flushing. While I am not as down on Queens as Dr. McCoy is, it is a strange place for people as well as for a baseball team. I recall seeing several streets there that actually curved; some were not numbered or lettered; in various spots, this strange green stuff grew. It was truly an alien environment. And I can also recall an unusually sweet smell that pervaded the atmosphere around Forest Hills. No civilized person would consider putting anything in Queens! What kind of a person was this Weinsier? Is he still alive? Did he spend his final days in Queens? Were they peaceful? Did he know what was happening to him? Did he admire Andre Baruch? Did Andre ever acknowledge how awful he was?

[jaykay]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Michael Weinsier was a fine man who passed away many years ago. His passing, I am pleased to report, was peaceful. My understanding is that he and Jaret did not increase their offer for the club because: a)having raised their bid at least once, they were at the limit they were willing to pay for the team, and b)they became convinced that O'Malley, with help and influence, would exceed any offer they made.

Although Dr.McCoy has revealed elsewhere that he was not around (Brooklyn) at the bitter end, surely he had noticed that many upstanding citizens, such as himself, had been heading for greener pastures ever since the end of the war, and that by the mid-50s the bulk of the Dodgers fan base no longer resided in Brooklyn. The question then becomes whether construction of a stadium in "downtown Brooklyn" would have led to large scale, far reaching improvements that would have revitalized the borough and brought back (not just for ballgames) the type of population that by then preferred Long Island, New Jersey and (forgive me) Queens. There are those who are convinced that O'Malley thought not, and that his request for the Atlantic Avenue site was merely a public relations ploy, knowing as he did all along that Moses would not confer the real estate upon him.

[donzblock]

RE: The Outfield Walls

No doubt Michael Weinsier was a fine man, but his failure to put in a high enough bid for the Brooklyn Dodgers kept him from being the perfect man, and when we talk about keeping the Dodgers in Brooklyn, perfection is what we demand, and anything that falls short of that is inexcusable. If Michael Weinsier had gone broke after successfully bidding for the Brooklyn Dodgers, we would still be honoring him and be celebrating his birthday today as a regional (and ultimately national) holiday. When one is bidding for the Brooklyn Dodgers, tire kicking is not acceptable. Would Brooklyn have been revitalized had the Dodgers remained? It is certainly possible. Coney Island was in sad shape in the 50s. Steeplechase was on its way out; it no longer even had the little people to goose you with the cattle prod. Luna Park was but a shell. Many storefronts were boarded up. It was the perfect place for a ballpark, and Stillwell Avenue would have been a great station to handle the 4th Avenue local, the Sea Beach Express, the Franklin Avenue express, the Brighton local and express, and the Brooklyn Dodger Cannonball Express. Brooklyn needed fewer highways and better train service, and the Brooklyn Dodgers in a new ballpark in Coney Island would have been the perfect excuse for that. Mr. Weinsier made a serious mistake in not consulting me.

[The Real McCoy]

RE: The Outfield Walls

"Never play cards with a man who calls himself 'Honest John' (I learned that lesson in a den called the York Motel, high on a bluff just west of the Jersey entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel), "Never play darts with a guy who owns his own set {of darts} (this opprobrium came to me in a joint called Al Thumbs on the Lancster Pike in Ardmore, Pa, courtesy of a house sharpshooter named Sonny) and "Never,ever bid against a lawyer who has an inside track on the deal".

I never knew Michael Weinsier and certainly take jaykay's word that he was "a fine man" and I rejoice in the fact he went peacefully. I doubt he ever darkened the doors of the York Motel or Al Thumbs, but somewhere he came into possession of the innate wisdom imbued in the last of the above benedictive monitions. O'Malley was on the inside of the Dodger sale deal and when a street-wise, Irish Catholic lawyer was on the inside of a deal in the forties in the borough of Brooklyn, everyone else was playing for second place. Any offer Mr Weinsier made would not have been enough. He was a runnerup from the start and, to his credit, probably was smart enough to recognize that fact quickly and strategically withdrew back to the plumbing fixtures business. Thus the "what if" speculation about a Weinsier ownership is just that, speculation. He was, from what has been shared so far, a good businessman, like the winning bidder and, as such, might have approached the late fifties Dodgers situation in much the same way the street wise lawyer did. Because,in the end, everyone eventually gets around to that ageless New York epistle, "Its not personal, its business".

[donzblock]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Perhaps Jaykay can tell us why Michael Weinsier was not able to deal with a "street-wise, Irish-Catholic lawyer...on the inside of a deal in the forties in the borough of Brooklyn"?

"Al Thumbs" is a great name. I'm not sorry I missed it.

[jaykay]

RE: The Outfield Walls

With all due respect, Professor, I think Dr. McCoy has just indicated why the Weinsier-Jaret partnership was destined for runner-up status. May I remind you that O'Malley was employed by the bank that was handling the sale of the team - sort of like Willie Newsome representing both the prosecution and the defense in your trial.

Yes, Doctor, business is business, and we'll never know what Michael Weinsier would have done in the face of an offer he couldn't refuse. Based on what I know about him, my guess is that he would have sold the team rather than move it out of this area. Perhaps he would have sold it to O'Malley, who would then have moved it to LA.

[bly11]

RE: The Outfield Walls

I'm amazed -- AMAZED -- that the most famous sign on the Ebbets walls has not been mentioned yet! (Okay, maybe second most famous after the Schaefer ad.)

I refer, naturally, to the "HIT THIS SIGN AND WIN A SUIT" advertisement of clothier (and longtime Brooklyn borough president) Abe Stark.

It was smartly placed, too, to avoid too great an outlay to opposing players: low on the right field wall, directly behind Carl Furillo. Not too many balls were going to hit THAT sign on the fly!

bly11

[donzblock]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Gosh, Bly11, you are a font of useful information. Gee whiz, Jaykay, how did we miss the Abe Stark sign? Poor Bly11 may never get over his amazement! And how carefully, Bly11, did you read the message that started this topic? (I mean thread!)

[bly11]

RE: The Outfield Walls

Very carefully. Four times, including two after reading your post. And I didn't even look at an old picture of Ebbets, so I was following orders. So I'm left to guess what you're suggesting I missed. Was the Stark sign on the scoreboard? Was "The Brass Rail" Stark's emporium? Was he the one pushing Van Heusen shirts? Can you fill me in?

And believe me, I've gotten over my amazement -- the sarcasm was a perfect cure.

bly11

"If you're scared, go home." -- Leo Durocher (when he was with the Dodgers, not the Giants)