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  • What If...

    Have any of you ever given any thought to this possibility:

    IF OUR Dodgers had actually won the NL pennant and then the WS in 1957, would the "Big O" have been allowed to take them and move? Would he have even dared to try?

    With a World Series win, it seems to me, BROOKLYN DODGER FANS would have moved heaven and earth to make sure they stayed where they belonged. It has always seemed to me that the NYC/NYS politicos (including Mr. Moses) would have been forced to take action to "KEEP OUR DODGERS in BROOKLYN". The win would have changed the landscape, maybe forever!

    It's an interesting "what if" to discuss. Let's hear what you think?

    c.

  • #2
    I agree, Deb. The entire city of New York most likely would have banded together against any notion of moving the team. Heck, take ANY team that's winning nowadays—especially a World Series—it wouldn't happen. Example: Try pulling such a stunt in St. Louis at the end of last season and see what transpires. It'd resemble one of those monster movies where you had angry mobs carrying pitchforks and torches. To fans, the folks in the home office are the ones that can be [sometimes SHOULD be] easily replaced, not championship franchises. A groundswell of fan support easily trumps owners with greedy ideas.

    Another thing, I can't help but think how many revenue-enhancing ideas that would have surfaced to keep the team planted right where it was. Today, there are towns all across the country that are ponying up tax incentives, property discounts, rent guarantees, etc....and that's just to get a brand name store like Bass Pro Shops to come in to town!

    A fun what if, fer sure! Love that positive thinking, Deb! ;c)
    Todd (Anderson)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Todd Anderson View Post
      I agree, Deb. The entire city of New York most likely would have banded together against any notion of moving the team. Heck, take ANY team that's winning nowadays—especially a World Series—it wouldn't happen. Example: Try pulling such a stunt in St. Louis at the end of last season and see what transpires. It'd resemble one of those monster movies where you had angry mobs carrying pitchforks and torches. To fans, the folks in the home office are the ones that can be [sometimes SHOULD be] easily replaced, not championship franchises. A groundswell of fan support easily trumps owners with greedy ideas.

      Another thing, I can't help but think how many revenue-enhancing ideas that would have surfaced to keep the team planted right where it was. Today, there are towns all across the country that are ponying up tax incentives, property discounts, rent guarantees, etc....and that's just to get a brand name store like Bass Pro Shops to come in to town!

      A fun what if, fer sure! Love that positive thinking, Deb! ;c)
      Todd (Anderson)
      Thanks, Todd! Nice to hear from you again!

      c.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think even if we just won the pennant, let alone the W.S. he would not have tried to move the team, if we didn't win in 1958, that would have been the last year, it would have just been a matter of time, he was ready to go as early as 1956, or even earlier.
        Last edited by LeoD; 10-22-2007, 03:04 PM.

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        • #5
          Had the Dodgers won in '57, I think there would have been a much different scenario. Let's say that the Giants left after 57, but they went to Minnesota, like they had originally intended. The Dodgers wouldn't have had that second team to move with them to California, so they would have stayed for a few more years at the least.

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          • #6
            I don't know how fast the clock was ticking in la, I do know that the lease on ebbets field was up at the end of 59. he had some more time, If he needed it. the land deal in la was almost squashed. If the team had won in 57 and not actually been in la in 58, then I think his land deal would have fallen through. If he had tried to move the team after a pennant or world series championship, it would have looked very suspicious. he may have held on to aging players longer, hoping they would start to lose. he couldn't get rid of still good players wholesale, because that to would look suspicious. with the window of opportunity closed I don't think there was another market big enough for him. If la was still unsuccessful In acquiring a major league team, he may have started from square one and the move may have happened later, as I'm sure the krater corp. would have willingly extended his lease. now, had la soured on the deal, or o'malley, or gotten another team to move then I think he would have stayed. by the time expansion came along it wouldn't have been possible, or the gain at least would have been minimal. after all, smart business man that he was, he would have realized that he had the entire nl market in new york. then his efforts would have been put in to maximizing his bottom line with what he had. he may have even taken the flushing site, with the notion to eventually build a stadium in brooklyn. however, all that he could have gotten for free or cheap, he would have taken. the o'malley take or spin as we call it today would have been something in the way of (" at the last minute through herculean efforts I have been able to avert a dodger move. though the obstacles were many, I have convinced everyone in the organization that the dodgers must never leave brooklyn. we will for now refurbish our beloved ebbets field and sites for a new stadium will be studied. by the end of the decade the dodgers will have a new stadium and the spectre of leaving will never hang over brooklyn again. we hope you will join with us in our celebration of victory as we look toward the bright limitless future the dodgers have here in the borough of brooklyn, the greatest city in new york. ") yea, it would have been that thick, but we wouldn't have cared as long as they stayed. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo
            Last edited by dodger dynamo; 10-22-2007, 05:16 PM.

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            • #7
              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=44445

              We had a rousing discussion about this
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Personally, I think there would have been no difference...it has become much more obvious that after the Dodgers trip to Japan in 1956, the sub human slimeball was left off in lalaland to take a helicopter ride over Chavez Ravine and the thought of all that free land made him think that no matter how much he made in Brooklyn or how well the team did, it would pale in comparison to what he could make in lalaland.

                Don't forget, it was Memorial Day weekend when the Dodgers and Giants were given unanimous permission (required at the time) to move to the left coast.....after that, every thing else was a charade. They were gone.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post
                  Personally, I think there would have been no difference...it has become much more obvious that after the Dodgers trip to Japan in 1956, the sub human slimeball was left off in lalaland to take a helicopter ride over Chavez Ravine and the thought of all that free land made him think that no matter how much he made in Brooklyn or how well the team did, it would pale in comparison to what he could make in lalaland.

                  Don't forget, it was Memorial Day weekend when the Dodgers and Giants were given unanimous permission (required at the time) to move to the left coast.....after that, every thing else was a charade. They were gone.



                  AND, the biggest part of that charade was that they were not allowed to win in 1957!

                  c.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DODGER DEB View Post
                    [/B]


                    AND, the biggest part of that charade was that they were not allowed to win in 1957!

                    c.
                    Not allowed???

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by metfan13 View Post
                      Not allowed???
                      Brooklyn hung out all through the 1957 season a couple of games out; they never could quite catch the Braves...a Sunday double header in June sticks out in my mind at Ebbets Field when Milwaukee swept and Brooklyn spent all the rest of the season chasing Milwaukee.

                      I think DD means, although she'll have to speak for herself, not much effort was made to shore up the team and make a run at the Braves; it was simply not a priority. Although I can understand the logic that winning the pennant would have made the sub human slime ball look worse, I don't think he deliberately threw the pennant for that reason.

                      They just weren't good enough and of course the following year, the first year of the Los Angeles National League baseball team, the imposter orghanization fell to 7th in an 8 team league.

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                      • #12
                        reese was slowing down, but maury wills wasn't brought up until after the move, they were saving clemente, until rickey stole him away. of course with a team full of legitimate stars, bringing up too many good youngsters was probably tough. however, there was no major shake up until after the move. I don't think there's enough evidence either way. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo. p.s It may have been a case of spend as little as possible, do as little as possible before the move.

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                        • #13
                          It may just have been that the Braves were, indeed, the better team. Here's a link to a post that I wrote on my blog awhile back when Lew/Lou Burdette died.

                          http://pushpull.wordpress.com/2007/0...-lou-burdette/
                          ---
                          Pushing on the doors of life marked "pull."
                          Visit my blogsigpic

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                          • #14
                            the braves were a good team. newk wasn't what he had been, his confidence shaken, podres was just back from the service, erskine was also nearing the end. I think rzt is right, the braves were better In 57, It would have been pretty hard to beat them, especially with no important moves made in off season. it Is interesting though that with a few fixes the dodgers beat the braves in a three game play off in 59. then went on to beat the go, go sox In six games, hmmm. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

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                            • #15
                              I'm curious, how many of you actually saw OUR DODGERS play in 1957, as I did?

                              c.

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