If the giants had moved in 57

[dodger dynamo]

I wonder if the dodgers would have moved at all if the giants had fled to Minnesota in 57?, or if the dodgers got stuck, because of the land referendum and had to play 58 in ebbets field. would it have made a difference? I think the dodgers might very well have stayed in ny and by now they'd be back in Brooklyn. very possibly near where keyspan is or maybe the atlantic yards site would finally be theirs after all. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

How could the Giants flee to Minnesota? O'Malley opposed. So no unanimous decision. It has been said before, but he really planned it out before 1957.

[EdTarbusz]

Unless the Dodgers got their new stadium in downtown Brooklyn they were moving.

[Urbanshocker13]

I have thought about this before, If the Giants moved maybe not as early as 57" maybe a little later to Minn., and The Dodgers say built a new stadium in Queens where Shea is now. They where not going to stay in Brooklyn then. I see the Dodgers playing in Queens until about now at the "big O" (O'Malley stadium) a dome or cookie cutter type place until about now where they are just about to move into a new retro ballpark in Brooklyn that looks allot like Ebbets Field. Much like the Mets new park. There wouldn't be any New York Mets, the two teams in New York would be the Dodgers and the Yankees which would be a crazier rivery than Mets/Yanks. I could see Wilpon owning the Dodgers today.

I see the Giants as not being in Minnesota for good. I see them moving from Minnesota to California down the line being Baseball Nomads a bit much like the Braves and A's. If the Giants and Dodgers don't go west first, I do see other teams taking their place then maybe the Senators who where courted by LA also and someone like the A's. So there Might of been the LA Angles (Senators wouldn't fit to well) and Oakland A's alot earlier ( maybe not the A's yet but someone would be out west)

There is always alot of problems when you do What Ifs with History, because it always leads to other events and you never really sure what will happen. Maybe If the Dodgers don't go The Giants stick it out? Then there is still 3 teams in New York, and there is a whole new Timeline in History. Who Knows what could happen If they stayed, Maybe with all those teams in New York the Yankees move to New Orleans after the CBS years

[dodger dynamo]

it's all really what might've been. If rickey had been able to put a deal together with the smiths and mckeevers who knows? we know how it did turn out. a lot of people made a lot of money and love the move, those of us here and many around the country weren't happy (understatement). I guess I wonder, would base ball be better, worse, or the same if the dodgers had stayed? well, for me it's an easy answer. it would be better for me and brooklyn fans. after that who can say?. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

[aqib]

it's all really what might've been. If rickey had been able to put a deal together with the smiths and mckeevers who knows? we know how it did turn out. a lot of people made a lot of money and love the move, those of us here and many around the country weren't happy (understatement). I guess I wonder, would base ball be better, worse, or the same if the dodgers had stayed? well, for me it's an easy answer. it would be better for me and brooklyn fans. after that who can say?. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

As an outsides, I have to say baseball would have been better off if the Dodgers had stayed in NY for a number of reasons:

1) You wouldn't have the tragic story thats still a stain on baseball. The NFL for the most part has repaired all its embarrassing moves, and all the other baseball moves were either 2 team cities becoming one team cities (Boston, Philly, St L) when they couldn't support two teams or the cities were eventually made whole (KC, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Seattle). Brooklyn still sits out there.

2) The Dodgers are one of MLBs signature franchises, but for all the moments they created in LA for every Fernando Valenzuela and Orel Hershiser, there are 10 great moments in Brooklyn. Also the Jackie Robinson story was a huge turning point in baseball and American history and it belongs to a franchise that doesn't really exist.

Baseball would have done fine in LA with any team and the Dodgers would be a storied franchise anywhere, but the Dodgers in Brooklyn would have been best for all concerened.

2) The

[Yankeebiscuitfan]

There is something that I don't understand.

O'Malley fans keep repeating that the decline of the neighbourhood was an important cause of the departure of the Dodgers.

But how about the Yankees and the neighbourhood around Yankee Stadium? You can't say that that neighbourhood is very good.

So IMO that is a moot argument.

[EdTarbusz]

it's all really what might've been. If rickey had been able to put a deal together with the smiths and mckeevers who knows?

I don't know if Rickey would have ignored the overtures of LA due to his notorious love of making money. He may not have been as anxious as O'Malley to leave Ebbets Field, but he didn't have to face the attendance problems there that O'Malley did. Even the most cursory look at what New York was offering and what LA was offering would indicate that LA made a better offer. Rickey may have made the same decision that O'Malley did. It may have been even easier for Rickey to move since he wasn't a native New Yorker. Rickey criticized the move, but I think its hard to say what he would have done in O'Malley's place.

[mandrake]

There is something that I don't understand.

O'Malley fans keep repeating that the decline of the neighbourhood was an important cause of the departure of the Dodgers.

But how about the Yankees and the neighbourhood around Yankee Stadium? You can't say that that neighbourhood is very good.

So IMO that is a moot argument.

Well, it is very easy to see things from 2008, but that was not always the case with the area around Yankee Stadium. I first went there in 1969 and the place was nasty. There were bums in the streets, and seedy characters everywhere. The Yankees failed to draw a million people in 1972, and the Mets had hit 2.7 million in 1970. By 1972, it looked like the Yankees made a huge mistake staying in the Bronx. The team stunk. The fans stayed home, Channel 11 played very few games on TV, and the Mets were rolling in dough. Meanwhile, the Dodgers were making a fortune in LA and routinely drawing 3 million per season. Even after Steinbrenner stepped in and brought the Yankees back to champions, he still complained about poor attendance for 20 years !!!! Look at their attendance in the early 1990's , and you could see why George reignited the "Yankees must move" stuff. There were plans to build a stadium just south of the Meadowlands, and NY State drew up plans to design a stadium on the Yonkers raceway sight.
Now that the Yankees draw 4 million per, it is easy to lose sight of what they suffered thru starting in 1966 when there were games that had 400 people in the Stadium . Even the Polo Grounds never sunk that low.

[Urbanshocker13]

Urban, the Yankees moving to a southern city? Beyond surreal.

It was actually one of the places they threatened to move to during to CBS days, probally would have changed their name.

[EdTarbusz]

I wonder if the dodgers would have moved at all if the giants had fled to Minnesota in 57?, or if the dodgers got stuck, because of the land referendum and had to play 58 in ebbets field. would it have made a difference? I think the dodgers might very well have stayed in ny and by now they'd be back in Brooklyn. very possibly near where keyspan is or maybe the atlantic yards site would finally be theirs after all. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

If the Giants moved to Minneapolis, then the Dodgers would have probably moved to the Dallas/Ft Worth area, unless another team (maybe Concinnati or Pittsburgh) went out west with them. With no stadium deal, I believe that the latest they could have stayed in Ebbets Field was 1961.

[aqib]

I don't know if Rickey would have ignored the overtures of LA due to his notorious love of making money. He may not have been as anxious as O'Malley to leave Ebbets Field, but he didn't have to face the attendance problems there that O'Malley did. Even the most cursory look at what New York was offering and what LA was offering would indicate that LA made a better offer. Rickey may have made the same decision that O'Malley did. It may have been even easier for Rickey to move since he wasn't a native New Yorker. Rickey criticized the move, but I think its hard to say what he would have done in O'Malley's place.

I disagree, O'Malley still had to pay for Dodger Stadium along with other concessions to get the land. Shea stadium would have been free to him. Also, its not like he was leaving a small town it left NY afterall.

[EdTarbusz]

I disagree, O'Malley still had to pay for Dodger Stadium along with other concessions to get the land. Shea stadium would have been free to him. Also, its not like he was leaving a small town it left NY afterall.

The fact that O'Malley would have been a tenant made the New York offer a bad offer. O'Malley wanted to own his own ballpark and LA made the better offer.

[SNAP]

I disagree, O'Malley still had to pay for Dodger Stadium along with other concessions to get the land. Shea stadium would have been free to him. Also, its not like he was leaving a small town it left NY afterall.

And many, many Dodger fans were moving to Long Island which is a stones throw from Shea. They would have done well there..........Tom Seaver as a Brooklyn Dodger.........hmmmmmmmmmm.