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Botched Coin Flip in 51'

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post
    Up until one out in the ninth inning of game 3, it was the right decision.
    The only way it makes sense to me is if you are extremely confident you will win the first game. If you lose the first game at home, you then have to win two games away, while your host merely needs to split at home.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by aqib View Post
      I thought 51 was because the Giants were stealing signs?
      Charlie Dressen was a compulsive and an accomplished sign stealer.

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      • #18
        Tough question and a judgment call which I'll never be in a position to make. Not sure how strongly you guys view home field advantage but it's my understanding that in baseball the home team only wins 53-54% of the time.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by aqib View Post
          I thought 51 was because the Giants were stealing signs?
          Sign stealing is like steroids - no one gives a specific instance where they have unquestionablly affected a specific contest. It's all talked discussed in round-about terms.

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          • #20
            The year the coin flip was really botched was 1946. The Dodgers should have given up home field and made St Louis ride to Brooklyn for the first game.

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            • #21
              Remember how Dick Young's account of THE game more or less ran on October 4, '51?

              YES, VIRGINIA, A TREE DOES GROW IN BROOKLYN, AND THAT TREE IS AN APPLE TREE, AND THOSE APPLES ARE STUCK IN THE THROATS OF THE BROOKLYN DODGERS....

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              • #22
                As I remember, where that genius Dressen blew it was not miscalling the coin flip but rather with Brooklyn ahead by 3 and a runner on first and one out in the last of the ninth inning, he had Gil Hodges holding the Giant runner on first rather than playing back. What followed was a seeing eye ground ball just past Hodges...if Gil is playing half way, it's the second out of the inning at least and perhaps a game ending, season ending, pennant winning double play.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post
                  As I remember, where that genius Dressen blew it was not miscalling the coin flip but rather with Brooklyn ahead by 3 and a runner on first and one out in the last of the ninth inning, he had Gil Hodges holding the Giant runner on first rather than playing back. What followed was a seeing eye ground ball just past Hodges...if Gil is playing half way, it's the second out of the inning at least and perhaps a game ending, season ending, pennant winning double play.
                  I think Dressen should have had Branca not throw strikes to Thomson, getting him to either chase or walk. Then they could have pitched to Willie Mays, who had faded down the stretch. Whether Branca should have even been in there, or if Newcombe should have even started the ninth are also debatable.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                    I think Dressen should have had Branca not throw strikes to Thomson, getting him to either chase or walk. Then they could have pitched to Willie Mays, who had faded down the stretch. Whether Branca should have even been in there, or if Newcombe should have even started the ninth are also debatable.
                    I think Branca describes the pitch that Thomson hit as a fastball up and in, out of the strike zone. Branca's intention was to use this pitch as a setup for the next pitch, a breaking ball down and away.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by musial6 View Post
                      Agreed. Coin flips didn't decide............... Blowing a 13 game lead on August 11, 1951, did.
                      Let's remember: the Giants won 12 of their final 13 games in '51 (and their last 7 in a row!). Pretty easy to "blow" a lead when the Giants refused to lose.............
                      you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                      http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bkmckenna View Post
                        Sign stealing is like steroids - no one gives a specific instance where they have unquestionablly affected a specific contest. It's all talked discussed in round-about terms.
                        Well Thomson admitted he knew what pitch was coming so I think we can label that an instance where it affected a specific game. This wasn't the standard guy on second relaying stuff it was a camera in the outfield and a buzzer to the dugout.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by aqib View Post
                          Well Thomson admitted he knew what pitch was coming so I think we can label that an instance where it affected a specific game.
                          Please document.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by penncentralpete View Post
                            Let's remember: the Giants won 12 of their final 13 games in '51 (and their last 7 in a row!). Pretty easy to "blow" a lead when the Giants refused to lose.............
                            Slice it as you may, given the date when it started, it's still the biggest blow job in ML history.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by aqib View Post
                              Well Thomson admitted he knew what pitch was coming so I think we can label that an instance where it affected a specific game. This wasn't the standard guy on second relaying stuff it was a camera in the outfield and a buzzer to the dugout.
                              Where was that spy the day before when the Giants couldn't score even one run?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by musial6 View Post
                                Slice it as you may, given the date when it started, it's still the biggest blow job in ML history.
                                Uh uh uh...the biggest blow job in major league history is a certain team whose name I will not mention with a 7 game lead with 2 weeks left in the season and didn't even get into a playoff......I wonder just who that team was?

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