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  • #61
    penncentralpete,

    You are making some case for the no diamond cut out debate!!! Excellent photo illustrations. I have seen these photos but I have always dismissed not being able to see a cut out on camera angle, etc... but you have posted quite a few that depict the "B" without a cutout. This might be why the owner of ballcap.com told me that when Podres saw the cap he was so impressed and surprised that the cap looked so authentic.

    That being the case, I still do not think that my ballcap.com '55 cap, sans diamond cutout, nails the original exactly (I'm speaking in terms of logo - color is another story). I am still not sure why a replica cap manufacturer, especially one such as ballcap.com, who makes each cap by hand, cannot nail the logo.

    As I mentioned, the cap that my Father received from LA back in '71, from my recollection of tracing the logo, I was 11 years old, does resemble the Roman Pro version. Note that I have not seen that cap since he passed away in '97. I will have to dig out the tracing from a box in the basement the next time I visit my mother's house.

    Again, I have been waiting so long on this forum for this discussion to take place. I appreciate all the responses and information here.

    Lou, NY

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by skaukatt View Post
      penncentralpete,

      You are making some case for the no diamond cut out debate!!! Excellent photo illustrations. I have seen these photos but I have always dismissed not being able to see a cut out on camera angle, etc... but you have posted quite a few that depict the "B" without a cutout. This might be why the owner of ballcap.com told me that when Podres saw the cap he was so impressed and surprised that the cap looked so authentic.

      That being the case, I still do not think that my ballcap.com '55 cap, sans diamond cutout, nails the original exactly (I'm speaking in terms of logo - color is another story). I am still not sure why a replica cap manufacturer, especially one such as ballcap.com, who makes each cap by hand, cannot nail the logo.

      As I mentioned, the cap that my Father received from LA back in '71, from my recollection of tracing the logo, I was 11 years old, does resemble the Roman Pro version. Note that I have not seen that cap since he passed away in '97. I will have to dig out the tracing from a box in the basement the next time I visit my mother's house.

      Again, I have been waiting so long on this forum for this discussion to take place. I appreciate all the responses and information here.

      Lou, NY
      Hi Lou and all: My first problem with ballcap.com is that I think their "B" is always too large. I also agree with you that their '55 version is NOT spot on. I've ordered their 1948 version, and should receive it in 4-to-6 weeks. When I was a kid (8,9,10 years old) we would buy a blue cap (.99) and a Brooklyn "B" (.25) for our moms to iron on the cap! They looked GREAT! The hobby shop sold baseball caps in all the colors and/or combinations (red with blue, etc.) and also sold all the MLB teams' logos as iron-ons. For $1.24, we were all set for the summer! And these caps looked fabulous! Nowadays, we shell out big bucks and get phoney-baloney! This bright "electric blue" the Mets are using is pretty, BUT nowhere NEAR original Brooklyn Dodger blue. Right now at this point of our search for the "real thing", I believe the old Roman-Pro caps were the closest thing to reality re: Brooklyn Dodger caps, in both color and the "B". Back in the '50's, the players wore "Tim McCauliff" caps (no longer in production). I think I spelled McCauliff incorrectly, but that was the manufacturer of MLB caps when I was 10.
      you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
      http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

      Comment


      • #63
        Ballcap.com is flat-out terrible. Historical inaccuracies, and lousy quality.

        I've ordered many caps from them, and been disappointed every single time.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by six4three View Post
          Ballcap.com is flat-out terrible. Historical inaccuracies, and lousy quality.

          I've ordered many caps from them, and been disappointed every single time.
          The problem is that not too many companies even are in the business of producing "throwback" caps. The ones that are, don't do a great job. Some companies make up their own versions of throwback caps that are way off-base, others (Ebbets Field Flannels) make only minor league and Negro League throwback caps and jerseys. The old-time caps and jerseys these companies produce run from the perfectly right-on to the bizarre. I truly cannot understand all of this. I suppose the older fellas (like me) aren't in the market for this throwback stuff, and consequently the companies don't give a hoot about accuracy; their money comes from all the present day caps and jerseys they are able to sell.
          you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
          http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

          Comment


          • #65
            I think it might be their hoping for faded memories and people too young to really know the differerence. It's cheaper just to "make a fake" and cash in. There has to be some real vintage 40's-50's ball caps out there. Some company should get them, study them and reproduce them. Isn't it a sad statement about mlb that they let these things be made. They might as well put a y on a red cap. If it's not correct it's not really the team logo. Then again if it's close and it's all ya got, whadda ya gonna do. oh, well I think the blue B on the white cap is very close to the white version worn in the 40's. I'll try to get a picture from arscenic and old lace and whistling in brooklyn. A great film by the way for dodger fans. red running up to the rotunda, just great stuff. oh, by the way guys great pics. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

            Comment


            • #66
              Friends:

              I guess this issue of historical accuracy brings me full circle to the pure white cap with the dark blue "B" that's being marketed as a "franchise cap," but is dated 1939 (on the back of the cap, no less). What IS a franchise cap, anyhow? Aren't they ALL franchise caps?

              It's a great, eye-catching cap, a flip on the usual, and the VERY dark blue of the "B" might JUST be the blue of Brooklyn---but I've never seen a player photographed wearing one. So I am beginning to doubt it existed as such.

              Two things:

              First, does anyone know why the team went green and white in 1937? I can't find any info on that, and I have only seen one low-quality color picture in which the fuzzy player was probably wearing green.

              Second, may I suggest that we Brooklyn Dodger fans adopt "Brooklyn Dodger Indigo" as the proper name of the team color to distinguish it from La Gorda's watered-down Lost Angeles "Dodger Blue"?
              Attached Files
              Spirit of '55:cap:

              "Let's Bring The Dodgers Home Before The Big Quake, Else The Fault Will Be Ours!"

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Spirit of '55 View Post
                Friends:

                I guess this issue of historical accuracy brings me full circle to the pure white cap with the dark blue "B" that's being marketed as a "franchise cap," but is dated 1939 (on the back of the cap, no less). What IS a franchise cap, anyhow? Aren't they ALL franchise caps?

                It's a great, eye-catching cap, a flip on the usual, and the VERY dark blue of the "B" might JUST be the blue of Brooklyn---but I've never seen a player photographed wearing one. So I am beginning to doubt it existed as such.

                Two things:

                First, does anyone know why the team went green and white in 1937? I can't find any info on that, and I have only seen one low-quality color picture in which the fuzzy player was probably wearing green.

                Second, may I suggest that we Brooklyn Dodger fans adopt "Brooklyn Dodger Indigo" as the proper name of the team color to distinguish it from La Gorda's watered-down Lost Angeles "Dodger Blue"?
                Hello: I'm afraid "1939" and "franchise" are merely STYLES of caps within their company. This hat (solid white with the indigo "B") was never worn by the Brooklyn Dodgers. The Dodgers' white caps were with blue piping (see Babe Ruth, etc.). As for the green, I have yet to find any explanation for this one-year color, except that the ushers at Ebbets Field wore green jackets that summer (1937). I have two very good books on the history of the baseball uniform, and neither book explains why the Bums went green.
                you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

                Comment


                • #68
                  penncentralpete & Dodger Dynamo,

                  I agree totally, the Brooklyn Dodgers never wore that solid white cap. My 1938 piped version is pretty close to the "Babe Ruth" cap you mention.

                  Also, Dodger Dynamo, I agree with your statement as well when you say cap manufacturers are hoping to cash in on faded memories and no memories at all for those too young to remember the team (like me). But, unlike those youth, my memories have been instilled in me by the rabid fans that my Dad an his brothers, my uncles were.

                  I can't for the life of me understand why some company does not do exactly what you said, study the original and reproduce it.

                  I really appreciate this thread, you guys, I have been waiting to discuss this subject for years.

                  Lou, NY

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Hi Guys: Right now I think we are at a dead end. The old Roman Pro caps (no longer in business) were the closest thing to a REAL Brooklyn cap. The other versions of very old Brooklyn caps are all we have as far as good replicas go. I am talking about the 1932 two-tone blue cap, the 1937 green cap, and the 1938 "Babe" cap (also the blue cap with white ribbing and a red "B"). As far as the '50's cap (blue with the white "B"), they are awful.
                    you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                    http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      this WAS the best.....no longer available.....
                      Attached Files
                      you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                      http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        two more examples of the "uncut" B. Ed Roebuck and Erv Palica.
                        Attached Files
                        you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                        http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          penncentralpete,

                          That would be the same as my Roman Pro, right? When did you purchase that cap?

                          As I said, mine was purchased in the early 1980's at the then Roosevelt Raceway Flea Market on Long Island from a female cap vendor. At the time I bought a few of them. One I wore while playing softball, the other is unworn and only worn when stepping out the other two, one is part of a tribute with a framed picture of the 1955 Champs and the other I gave (holding) to/for my 8 year old daughter to carry on the legacy to the next gen.

                          Lou, NY
                          Last edited by skaukatt; 04-26-2008, 11:34 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            ...man, that uncut "B" really escaped me all these years. I did see these pics before but always attributed not seeing the cut out on the angle at which the photo was taken or, sun glare.

                            Also, I asked my uncle about it but his memory did not recall an uncut "B" but as we know, memories fade. He claims to have an original cap the he purchased at Gerry Cosby's in NYC in 1953. He and my Father went to the store to purchase caps, he bought the Dodger cap and my Father, who had Dodger caps already, purchased a St. Louis Cardinal's cap since he absolutely adored Stan "The Man" Musial. he also had a three fingered Stan Musial glove that he wore during his own ball playing days.

                            As a side note to that, I don't know if anyone here would remember an old Brooklyn sandlot team called the Mustangs, but my Father and his brothers played for the Mustangs throughout the 1940's and early 1950's. From what my Dad told me, there were many italian social clubs back in the old neighborhood of the north side of Brooklyn, one of which was the Mustangs. They had a baseball team and played other clubs in various leagues during the period. How I wish I had that glove!

                            Lou, NY

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by skaukatt View Post
                              penncentratpete,

                              That would be the same as my Roman Pro, right? When did you purchase that cap?

                              As I said, mine was purchased in the early 1980's at the then Roosevelt Raceway Flea Market on Long Island from a female cap vendor. At the time I bought a few of them. One I wore while playing softball, the other is unworn and only worn when stepping out the other two, one is part of a tribute with a framed picture of the 1955 Champs and the other I gave (holding) to/for my 8 year old daughter to carry on the legacy to the next gen.

                              Lou, NY
                              Hi Lou: The picture of my Roman Pro cap was taken long ago. I wish it was still in that shape. I wore it all the time from the late '70's (when I bought it thru the mail) and now it is in very rough shape. It has turned purple and is very dirty. I attempted to wash it many times, but still is pretty bad!
                              you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
                              http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                pete,

                                Do you think it is the same as my own Roman Pro that I submitted here? It looks very very close if not exactly like it.

                                Lou, NY

                                Comment

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