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  • #16
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    What exactly did Bavasi do? Because whoever "Uncle Sam" is, he attributed Campanis's comments erroneously to Bavasi. Campanis made those comments in a national interview, not Bavasi. I watched that interview, it was on 20/20 I believe. So that certainly doesn't make Bavasi a bigot, just very unfortunately misattributed, typical of the great majority of blogs.
    The Campanis interview was on Nightline. If I rewmember correctly, he appeared to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
      The Campanis interview was on Nightline. If I rewmember correctly, he appeared to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers.
      Correct & correct. It was a classic examble of something good always being the outcome of any situation, no matter how bad it may seem at the time.
      It peeled back the curtin and let us see how ML management truely felt about minorities. Once you know the truth, you can address the problem.
      Many terrific incentives and programs were launched because a semi-feeble minded old racist let his guard down for about 120 seconds.


      Poor Bavasi ! His own death thread has been sidetracked by Al Campanis !

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
        The Campanis interview was on Nightline. If I rewmember correctly, he appeared to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers.
        Better memory than mine.

        I could say more about Campanis, but this isn't for him, it's for Bavasi. We don't see many who've devoted so much for so long to baseball like him anymore.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
          The Campanis interview was on Nightline. If I rewmember correctly, he appeared to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers.
          Ed, you're right on it was an interview on Nightline and it took about 2 days for the proverbial you know what to hit the fan and Campanis, who was a great talent evaluator who was, at the time, running the Los Angeles National League baseball team's farm division.

          Bavasi won me over last summer when he did an interview for one of the LA sports radio stations in June to discuss the theft of the Brooklyn franchise and how everybody working in the office was opposed to it except the slime ball who had the only vote that counted..

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
            Correct & correct. It was a classic examble of something good always being the outcome of any situation, no matter how bad it may seem at the time.
            It peeled back the curtin and let us see how ML management truely felt about minorities. Once you know the truth, you can address the problem.
            Many terrific incentives and programs were launched because a semi-feeble minded old racist let his guard down for about 120 seconds.

            Poor Bavasi ! His own death thread has been sidetracked by Al Campanis !
            Your "truth" is a "classic example" of how ignorance and laziness can perpetuate a myth:

            In an interview the next year, Campanis attempted to clarify that he was referring to the lack of African-Americans with experience in these areas, rather than their innate abilities. He also said that he was "wiped out" when the interview took place and therefore not entirely himself.

            And from those who knew him best:

            When Jackie Robinson broke the modern major league color barrier in 1947, Campanis, then a Brooklyn Dodger infielder, offered, repeat offered, to room with him. Campanis taught Robinson how to turn a double play to avoid spiking by the charging, Robinson-hating base runners. Throw the ball at the base runner's forehead, Campanis advised. Do that a couple times, he said, and goodbye, human javelins.

            As a player development executive with the Dodgers, Campanis signed, among others, Roberto Clemente, Willie Davis and Tommy Davis.

            "(Campanis) didn't have a racist bone in his body." -- Vin Scully, longtime Dodger broadcaster and the most respected announcer in sports.

            "What happened to him ... was unfortunate. He was just the opposite of what he was accused of being." -- Dodger third-base coach, Joe Amalfitano

            "While in the minor leagues, Campanis once threw down his glove during a game and challenged an opponent who was bullying Robinson. He was also known to invite Robinson to eat with him while many other whites chose to keep their distance." -- Robert Kuwada, Orange County Register sportswriter.

            "You hate that any man's career is ruined in a couple of minutes. What he said was wrong, but he was always cool to minorities when I was there, especially the Latin players, and the blacks." -- San Francisco manager Dusty Baker, and former Dodger outfielder.

            "It's sad to think that Al leaves the world with an unjustifiable reputation. He never judged a player on the basis of color. The only thing he wanted to know was 'can he play?' He dedicated his life to the Dodgers and did more for Latin and black players than anyone in baseball. I'll stand on that statement." -- Dodger general manager Tommy Lasorda

            "Mr. Campanis was a great person, a great human being. He treated everyone with a great deal of respect. He gave the Latin players a lot of opportunities to play in the Dodger organization. We called him the 'father of Latin baseball.'" -- former Dodger player and current coach Manny Mota.

            "I've never been around a fairer man in my life." -- longtime Dodger infielder and former manager Bill Russell.

            "I'm sad not only for his passing but for the way people will remember him. That's not the way I will remember him. There are a lot of racists in the world, on both sides, and he wasn't one of them. He helped Roy so much when he was coming through the major leagues. He molded a lot of young men into men." -- Roxie Campanella, the widow of former Dodger catcher Roy Campanella.


            Next time, do your homework before you slander a dead man.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
              Easy, folks. musial6 is a good and solid contributor to these boards, not a troublemaker. He made an honest mistake by following a poor source of information. I'm sure he gets it now.
              Indeed I do. Sorry.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shlevine42 View Post
                Your "truth" is a "classic example" of how ignorance and laziness can perpetuate a myth:

                Next time, do your homework before you slander a dead man.
                Well, there you go again.

                My memory is sharp. The record is thus:

                In 1987, "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel interviewed Al Campanis, the general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

                During the interview Koppel asked Campanis why black managers and general managers were virtually nonexistent in the sport. Campanis gave a notorious response: "It's just that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager."

                When Koppel objected, Campanis responded, "I know that they have wanted to manage, and many of them haven't managed. But they are outstanding athletes, very God-gifted and wonderful people … They are gifted with great musculature (sic) and various other things. They are fleet of foot and this is why there are a number of black ballplayers in the major leagues."

                No slander fella. Just the facts. Al Campanis was a racist. Case closed.

                Now, do you have anything to say about Buzzy Bavasi, the topic of the thread ?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shlevine42 View Post
                  Your "truth" is a "classic example" of how ignorance and laziness can perpetuate a myth:

                  In an interview the next year, Campanis attempted to clarify that he was referring to the lack of African-Americans with experience in these areas, rather than their innate abilities. He also said that he was "wiped out" when the interview took place and therefore not entirely himself.

                  And from those who knew him best:

                  When Jackie Robinson broke the modern major league color barrier in 1947, Campanis, then a Brooklyn Dodger infielder, offered, repeat offered, to room with him. Campanis taught Robinson how to turn a double play to avoid spiking by the charging, Robinson-hating base runners. Throw the ball at the base runner's forehead, Campanis advised. Do that a couple times, he said, and goodbye, human javelins.

                  As a player development executive with the Dodgers, Campanis signed, among others, Roberto Clemente, Willie Davis and Tommy Davis.

                  "(Campanis) didn't have a racist bone in his body." -- Vin Scully, longtime Dodger broadcaster and the most respected announcer in sports.

                  "What happened to him ... was unfortunate. He was just the opposite of what he was accused of being." -- Dodger third-base coach, Joe Amalfitano

                  "While in the minor leagues, Campanis once threw down his glove during a game and challenged an opponent who was bullying Robinson. He was also known to invite Robinson to eat with him while many other whites chose to keep their distance." -- Robert Kuwada, Orange County Register sportswriter.

                  "You hate that any man's career is ruined in a couple of minutes. What he said was wrong, but he was always cool to minorities when I was there, especially the Latin players, and the blacks." -- San Francisco manager Dusty Baker, and former Dodger outfielder.

                  "It's sad to think that Al leaves the world with an unjustifiable reputation. He never judged a player on the basis of color. The only thing he wanted to know was 'can he play?' He dedicated his life to the Dodgers and did more for Latin and black players than anyone in baseball. I'll stand on that statement." -- Dodger general manager Tommy Lasorda

                  "Mr. Campanis was a great person, a great human being. He treated everyone with a great deal of respect. He gave the Latin players a lot of opportunities to play in the Dodger organization. We called him the 'father of Latin baseball.'" -- former Dodger player and current coach Manny Mota.

                  "I've never been around a fairer man in my life." -- longtime Dodger infielder and former manager Bill Russell.

                  "I'm sad not only for his passing but for the way people will remember him. That's not the way I will remember him. There are a lot of racists in the world, on both sides, and he wasn't one of them. He helped Roy so much when he was coming through the major leagues. He molded a lot of young men into men." -- Roxie Campanella, the widow of former Dodger catcher Roy Campanella.


                  Next time, do your homework before you slander a dead man.
                  If actions speak louder than words then Campanis didn't deserve the brickbats thrown his way. I remember watching that interview and Campanis sounded a little confused. I think that Ted Koppell seemed like he thought the same and tried to help Campanis out, but to no avail. I still believe that if Jackie Robinson had still been alive in 1988, he would have come to Campanis's defense. It's difficult for me to beliebve that a racist would have been willing to help out Jackie Robinson right from the start. Even the most tolerant of the Dodgers didn't seem to really accept him until after the 1947 season.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                    Well, there you go again.

                    My memory is sharp. The record is thus:

                    In 1987, "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel interviewed Al Campanis, the general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

                    During the interview Koppel asked Campanis why black managers and general managers were virtually nonexistent in the sport. Campanis gave a notorious response: "It's just that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager."

                    When Koppel objected, Campanis responded, "I know that they have wanted to manage, and many of them haven't managed. But they are outstanding athletes, very God-gifted and wonderful people … They are gifted with great musculature (sic) and various other things. They are fleet of foot and this is why there are a number of black ballplayers in the major leagues."

                    No slander fella. Just the facts. Al Campanis was a racist. Case closed.

                    Now, do you have anything to say about Buzzy Bavasi, the topic of the thread ?
                    If he was saying that experience was a necessity, then he may have had a point. Prior to 1988, I can think of three black managers, offhand, Frank Robinson, Larry Doby and Maury Wills, none of which were very successful, especially Maury Wills.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I don't think Campanis was a racist, there is too much in his history to fairly classify him based on a couple of comments. I do think, though, he was part of the instituionalized racism in general. The fact of the matter opportunity had not been presented as well as it could have been, Campanis was merely part of a system that still had plenty of addressing to do in rgeards to racial matters. He should not have been made a fall guy, and Campanis had said he was actually glad what he said did open eyes to what was an issue that did need addressing.


                      Life isn't black and white, it's too dynamic to quickly label. Paul Harvey has taught us that. And now we know . . .
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                      Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
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                      Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
                      Robin Bill Ernie JEDI

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                        Well, there you go again.

                        My memory is sharp. The record is thus:

                        In 1987, "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel interviewed Al Campanis, the general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

                        During the interview Koppel asked Campanis why black managers and general managers were virtually nonexistent in the sport. Campanis gave a notorious response: "It's just that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager."

                        When Koppel objected, Campanis responded, "I know that they have wanted to manage, and many of them haven't managed. But they are outstanding athletes, very God-gifted and wonderful people … They are gifted with great musculature (sic) and various other things. They are fleet of foot and this is why there are a number of black ballplayers in the major leagues."

                        No slander fella. Just the facts. Al Campanis was a racist. Case closed.

                        Now, do you have anything to say about Buzzy Bavasi, the topic of the thread ?
                        The "facts" are the statements in Post #21. Do you have anything to say about THAT?

                        Or do you know Campanis better than the men who played with him?

                        You are obviously incapable of acknowledging any facts that don't agree with your preconceived opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                          If he was saying that experience was a necessity, then he may have had a point. Prior to 1988, I can think of three black managers, offhand, Frank Robinson, Larry Doby and Maury Wills, none of which were very successful, especially Maury Wills.
                          It's the second highlighted quote that tells you what he is.

                          Of course he helped black ballplayers !

                          He believed, as many in the older generation did and still do, that blacks should be treated better and given more opportunities to play professional sports.
                          Whoopdee do !
                          He also believed, as many older people did and do, that blacks were not as intelligent as whites. His words speak for themselves.
                          "fleet of foot" ? "great musculature" ? Puh-leeze.
                          Many older people did and do believe you could hold these two views and not be considered a racist. But that is exactly what it makes you.

                          Al Campanis was a racist. He lived his life as a racist. He died with scorn and shame because of his racism.
                          That's the last I have to say about the racist Al Campanis in this thread for poor Buzzy Bavasi.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
                            It's the second highlighted quote that tells you what he is.

                            Of course he helped black ballplayers !

                            He believed, as many in the older generation did and still do, that blacks should be treated better and given more opportunities to play professional sports.
                            Whoopdee do !
                            He also believed, as many older people did and do, that blacks were not as intelligent as whites. His words speak for themselves.
                            "fleet of foot" ? "great musculature" ? Puh-leeze.
                            Many older people did and do believe you could hold these two views and not be considered a racist. But that is exactly what it makes you.

                            Al Campanis was a racist. He lived his life as a racist. He died with scorn and shame because of his racism.
                            That's the last I have to say about the racist Al Campanis in this thread for poor Buzzy Bavasi.
                            I think those quotes say more about Campanis's generation than his views on race. I think there were a lot of racists in baseball's history but I don't think Campanis was one of them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ralph Zig Tyko
                              Ed, Campanis represented a generation of racists and bigots. He not only was one, he was their poster boy.
                              I don't believe that. If you were talking about Dixie Walker, Ben Chapman or Tom Yawkey I'd be inclined to agree with you.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                There's more bizarre stuff than just the "necessities" comment.

                                From the NY Times:

                                When he interviewed Mr. Campanis, Mr. Koppel put nostalgia aside. He asked him why baseball had no black managers, general managers or owners and suggested that the answer was prejudice.

                                Mr. Campanis replied: ''No, I don't believe it's prejudice. I truly believe that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager.''

                                Mr. Koppel, taken aback, gave Mr. Campanis another chance, asking, ''Do you really believe that?''

                                Mr. Campanis responded: ''Well, I don't say that all of them, but they certainly are short. How many quarterbacks do you have, how many pitchers do you have that are black?''

                                Later, Mr. Campanis became ensnarled in athletic musculature while trying to make a point, remarking: ''Why are black men or black people not good swimmers? Because they don't have the buoyancy.''

                                After a commercial break, Mr. Koppel -- pronouncing himself ''flabbergasted'' by Mr. Campanis's remarks -- gave him an opportunity to ''dig yourself out.''

                                But Mr. Campanis was digging his own professional grave. ''I have never said that blacks are not intelligent,'' he told Mr. Koppel. ''I think many of them are highly intelligent. But they may not have the desire to be in the front office.''

                                He added, ''But they're outstanding athletes, very God-gifted, and they're wonderful people.''

                                http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...55C0A96E958260

                                ~~

                                IMHO Campanis was most certainly racist. Did he dislike Blacks? I'd say almost certainly not. But you can be racist without having anything against Blacks. And I don't think any honest person can take Campanis' comments as anything other than racist. Blacks are short and can't swim?! Puleeze!

                                He wasn't a mean, nasty, hateful racist, but probably a kind, friendly, dumb racist.
                                Last edited by LetsGoMets687; 05-02-2008, 01:15 PM.

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