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Buzzy Bavasi

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  • dodger dynamo
    replied
    I remember when Jackie first came up, my parents never said anything derogatory about any one. As kids then, we were amazed that Jackie was coming to the dodgers, because we then thought wow! why aren't more athletes like this wonderful player in the majors. Before Jackie robinson it wasn't a part of conversation and we didn't think about it and we weren't aware, that's how sheltered we all were, news media and what you learn in school is not what it is to day. of course we were kids, after Jackie Robinson the world knew and we saw what had been wrong for all those years. battlin bake, the dodger dynamo

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  • DODGER DEB
    replied
    There is no doubt that Race has evolved in MLB, as it has in society in general.

    I never knew Al Campanis to be a racist...at least I never heard him express a racist remark. Sometimes, on a TV show, when each guest in looking to have attention drawn to them on the subject matter, no matter what it is, people get carried away in the few seconds they have to express themselves....and the words come out all wrong.

    c.

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  • stejay
    replied
    You, Musial6 said that a bigot is someone who is intolerant to other peoples views and opinions. You are welcome to your belief that Bavasi was a bigot, but you are very much mistaken. You my friend, have been led on by a person who is more than a bigot. He is a dis-respectful person, who does not care if he drags a decent, and caring man through the mud. This is a man who helped bring down the color barrier. I am not blaming you, you are just going by what you heard. It is this unclesam guy I have the beef with.

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  • Yankees2k6
    replied
    Originally posted by Shotgun Shuba View Post
    My sources are telling me that Buzzy Bavasi died today at the age of 93. That is a big loss to Brooklyn fans everywhere.
    R.I.P. the baseball world will never forget you!

    Leave a comment:


  • Macker
    replied
    I spent the better part of a day with him many years ago when he ran a bunch of us through drills at a Dodger tryout. A couple of guys working with him were real drill sergeants. They never got close to us; they just barked out orders or criticism. Bavasi, however, would make the rounds in the field or the dugout of the squad that was batting and shoot the breeze with you. Even though he was spending the day looking at people who had virtually no chance of being signed, he seemed to enjoy his work.

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  • Mattingly
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    What exactly did Bavasi do? Because whoever "Uncle Sam" is, he attributed Campanis's comments erroneously to Bavasi. Campanis made those comments in a national interview, not Bavasi. I watched that interview, it was on 20/20 I believe. So that certainly doesn't make Bavasi a bigot, just very unfortunately misattributed, typical of the great majority of blogs.
    I remember watching that interview also, and I think it was around 20 years ago. Wasn't that on Ted Koppel's Nightline show?

    Anyway, RIP, Mr Bavasi.


    Patrick Burns/The New York Times
    From left, Brooklyn Dodgers General Manager Buzzie Bavasi with Pee Wee Reese,
    Jackie Robinson and Roy Campanella after signing them to contracts before the 1953 season.


    Buzzie Bavasi, a Dodgers Innovator, Dies at 93
    Buzzie Bavasi, the general manager of the Dodgers during their glory years in Brooklyn and their first decade in Los Angeles, and a baseball executive for nearly a half-century, died Thursday in San Diego, where he lived. He was 93.

    His death was announced by the Seattle Mariners. Bavasi’s son Bill is executive vice president and general manager of the team.

    In his years with the Dodgers, San Diego Padres and California Angels, Bavasi was enmeshed in enormous change. He championed the acceptance of black players in organized baseball, helped take major league baseball to California, put together an expansion team in San Diego and saw power shift from management to the players with the arrival of free agency.

    In his 18 years with the Dodgers, from 1951 to 1968, Bavasi’s clubs won eight National League pennants and four World Series championships, including the team’s only one in Brooklyn, in 1955, against the Yankees, building teams with the likes of Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Jackie Robinson, Don Newcombe, Gil Hodges, Duke Snider, Pee Wee Reese, Roy Campanella and Maury Wills.

    He was born Emil Joseph Bavasi in Manhattan, though he was not Emil for long. His sister Iola nicknamed him Buzzie because, he said, he was “always buzzing around.”

    He started out in baseball in 1939 when the National League president, Ford Frick, whose son had roomed with Bavasi at DePauw University, recommended him for an office boy’s job with the Dodgers, then being run by Larry MacPhail. Soon, Bavasi was involved in his first deal — or non-deal, as it turned out.

    Bavasi, who had been a catcher of no great distinction for DePauw, was in a scouting meeting in which a right-handed pitcher for Purdue, whom he once played against, had been mentioned as a good prospect.

    “That night I got out my scrapbook,” Bavasi recalled in “Off the Record” (Contemporary Books, 1987), written with John Strege. “I looked up the box score of that Purdue game. DePauw had won and I had gotten three hits. So I took the box score into the office the next day. Larry MacPhail was prepared to pay this pitcher a bonus of $1,500. When he read the box score, he tore the contract up. Larry turned to me and said, ‘If you can get three hits off him, we don’t want him.’ ”

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  • aqib
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    If actions speak louder than words then Campanis didn't deserve the brickbats thrown his way. I remember watching that interview and Campanis sounded a little confused. I think that Ted Koppell seemed like he thought the same and tried to help Campanis out, but to no avail. I still believe that if Jackie Robinson had still been alive in 1988, he would have come to Campanis's defense. It's difficult for me to beliebve that a racist would have been willing to help out Jackie Robinson right from the start. Even the most tolerant of the Dodgers didn't seem to really accept him until after the 1947 season.
    Those are two seperate things. Its like parents who love it when their kids have minorities as friends but would disown their children if they ever dated a minority. Lots of owners loved having black players but would never hire them to coach. Now it would be one thing if he made those comments in the 50s but he said them in the 80s. There is probably more behind the scenes that we don't know. It takes a lot to get Peter O'Malley to fire you.

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  • LetsGoMets687
    replied
    There's more bizarre stuff than just the "necessities" comment.

    From the NY Times:

    When he interviewed Mr. Campanis, Mr. Koppel put nostalgia aside. He asked him why baseball had no black managers, general managers or owners and suggested that the answer was prejudice.

    Mr. Campanis replied: ''No, I don't believe it's prejudice. I truly believe that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager.''

    Mr. Koppel, taken aback, gave Mr. Campanis another chance, asking, ''Do you really believe that?''

    Mr. Campanis responded: ''Well, I don't say that all of them, but they certainly are short. How many quarterbacks do you have, how many pitchers do you have that are black?''

    Later, Mr. Campanis became ensnarled in athletic musculature while trying to make a point, remarking: ''Why are black men or black people not good swimmers? Because they don't have the buoyancy.''

    After a commercial break, Mr. Koppel -- pronouncing himself ''flabbergasted'' by Mr. Campanis's remarks -- gave him an opportunity to ''dig yourself out.''

    But Mr. Campanis was digging his own professional grave. ''I have never said that blacks are not intelligent,'' he told Mr. Koppel. ''I think many of them are highly intelligent. But they may not have the desire to be in the front office.''

    He added, ''But they're outstanding athletes, very God-gifted, and they're wonderful people.''

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...55C0A96E958260

    ~~

    IMHO Campanis was most certainly racist. Did he dislike Blacks? I'd say almost certainly not. But you can be racist without having anything against Blacks. And I don't think any honest person can take Campanis' comments as anything other than racist. Blacks are short and can't swim?! Puleeze!

    He wasn't a mean, nasty, hateful racist, but probably a kind, friendly, dumb racist.
    Last edited by LetsGoMets687; 05-02-2008, 01:15 PM.

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  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralph Zig Tyko
    Ed, Campanis represented a generation of racists and bigots. He not only was one, he was their poster boy.
    I don't believe that. If you were talking about Dixie Walker, Ben Chapman or Tom Yawkey I'd be inclined to agree with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    It's the second highlighted quote that tells you what he is.

    Of course he helped black ballplayers !

    He believed, as many in the older generation did and still do, that blacks should be treated better and given more opportunities to play professional sports.
    Whoopdee do !
    He also believed, as many older people did and do, that blacks were not as intelligent as whites. His words speak for themselves.
    "fleet of foot" ? "great musculature" ? Puh-leeze.
    Many older people did and do believe you could hold these two views and not be considered a racist. But that is exactly what it makes you.

    Al Campanis was a racist. He lived his life as a racist. He died with scorn and shame because of his racism.
    That's the last I have to say about the racist Al Campanis in this thread for poor Buzzy Bavasi.
    I think those quotes say more about Campanis's generation than his views on race. I think there were a lot of racists in baseball's history but I don't think Campanis was one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • whoisonit
    replied
    Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
    If he was saying that experience was a necessity, then he may have had a point. Prior to 1988, I can think of three black managers, offhand, Frank Robinson, Larry Doby and Maury Wills, none of which were very successful, especially Maury Wills.
    It's the second highlighted quote that tells you what he is.

    Of course he helped black ballplayers !

    He believed, as many in the older generation did and still do, that blacks should be treated better and given more opportunities to play professional sports.
    Whoopdee do !
    He also believed, as many older people did and do, that blacks were not as intelligent as whites. His words speak for themselves.
    "fleet of foot" ? "great musculature" ? Puh-leeze.
    Many older people did and do believe you could hold these two views and not be considered a racist. But that is exactly what it makes you.

    Al Campanis was a racist. He lived his life as a racist. He died with scorn and shame because of his racism.
    That's the last I have to say about the racist Al Campanis in this thread for poor Buzzy Bavasi.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    Well, there you go again.

    My memory is sharp. The record is thus:

    In 1987, "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel interviewed Al Campanis, the general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    During the interview Koppel asked Campanis why black managers and general managers were virtually nonexistent in the sport. Campanis gave a notorious response: "It's just that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager."

    When Koppel objected, Campanis responded, "I know that they have wanted to manage, and many of them haven't managed. But they are outstanding athletes, very God-gifted and wonderful people … They are gifted with great musculature (sic) and various other things. They are fleet of foot and this is why there are a number of black ballplayers in the major leagues."

    No slander fella. Just the facts. Al Campanis was a racist. Case closed.

    Now, do you have anything to say about Buzzy Bavasi, the topic of the thread ?
    The "facts" are the statements in Post #21. Do you have anything to say about THAT?

    Or do you know Campanis better than the men who played with him?

    You are obviously incapable of acknowledging any facts that don't agree with your preconceived opinions.

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  • Captain Cold Nose
    replied
    I don't think Campanis was a racist, there is too much in his history to fairly classify him based on a couple of comments. I do think, though, he was part of the instituionalized racism in general. The fact of the matter opportunity had not been presented as well as it could have been, Campanis was merely part of a system that still had plenty of addressing to do in rgeards to racial matters. He should not have been made a fall guy, and Campanis had said he was actually glad what he said did open eyes to what was an issue that did need addressing.


    Life isn't black and white, it's too dynamic to quickly label. Paul Harvey has taught us that. And now we know . . .

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  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by whoisonit View Post
    Well, there you go again.

    My memory is sharp. The record is thus:

    In 1987, "Nightline" anchor Ted Koppel interviewed Al Campanis, the general manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    During the interview Koppel asked Campanis why black managers and general managers were virtually nonexistent in the sport. Campanis gave a notorious response: "It's just that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager."

    When Koppel objected, Campanis responded, "I know that they have wanted to manage, and many of them haven't managed. But they are outstanding athletes, very God-gifted and wonderful people … They are gifted with great musculature (sic) and various other things. They are fleet of foot and this is why there are a number of black ballplayers in the major leagues."

    No slander fella. Just the facts. Al Campanis was a racist. Case closed.

    Now, do you have anything to say about Buzzy Bavasi, the topic of the thread ?
    If he was saying that experience was a necessity, then he may have had a point. Prior to 1988, I can think of three black managers, offhand, Frank Robinson, Larry Doby and Maury Wills, none of which were very successful, especially Maury Wills.

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  • EdTarbusz
    replied
    Originally posted by shlevine42 View Post
    Your "truth" is a "classic example" of how ignorance and laziness can perpetuate a myth:

    In an interview the next year, Campanis attempted to clarify that he was referring to the lack of African-Americans with experience in these areas, rather than their innate abilities. He also said that he was "wiped out" when the interview took place and therefore not entirely himself.

    And from those who knew him best:

    When Jackie Robinson broke the modern major league color barrier in 1947, Campanis, then a Brooklyn Dodger infielder, offered, repeat offered, to room with him. Campanis taught Robinson how to turn a double play to avoid spiking by the charging, Robinson-hating base runners. Throw the ball at the base runner's forehead, Campanis advised. Do that a couple times, he said, and goodbye, human javelins.

    As a player development executive with the Dodgers, Campanis signed, among others, Roberto Clemente, Willie Davis and Tommy Davis.

    "(Campanis) didn't have a racist bone in his body." -- Vin Scully, longtime Dodger broadcaster and the most respected announcer in sports.

    "What happened to him ... was unfortunate. He was just the opposite of what he was accused of being." -- Dodger third-base coach, Joe Amalfitano

    "While in the minor leagues, Campanis once threw down his glove during a game and challenged an opponent who was bullying Robinson. He was also known to invite Robinson to eat with him while many other whites chose to keep their distance." -- Robert Kuwada, Orange County Register sportswriter.

    "You hate that any man's career is ruined in a couple of minutes. What he said was wrong, but he was always cool to minorities when I was there, especially the Latin players, and the blacks." -- San Francisco manager Dusty Baker, and former Dodger outfielder.

    "It's sad to think that Al leaves the world with an unjustifiable reputation. He never judged a player on the basis of color. The only thing he wanted to know was 'can he play?' He dedicated his life to the Dodgers and did more for Latin and black players than anyone in baseball. I'll stand on that statement." -- Dodger general manager Tommy Lasorda

    "Mr. Campanis was a great person, a great human being. He treated everyone with a great deal of respect. He gave the Latin players a lot of opportunities to play in the Dodger organization. We called him the 'father of Latin baseball.'" -- former Dodger player and current coach Manny Mota.

    "I've never been around a fairer man in my life." -- longtime Dodger infielder and former manager Bill Russell.

    "I'm sad not only for his passing but for the way people will remember him. That's not the way I will remember him. There are a lot of racists in the world, on both sides, and he wasn't one of them. He helped Roy so much when he was coming through the major leagues. He molded a lot of young men into men." -- Roxie Campanella, the widow of former Dodger catcher Roy Campanella.


    Next time, do your homework before you slander a dead man.
    If actions speak louder than words then Campanis didn't deserve the brickbats thrown his way. I remember watching that interview and Campanis sounded a little confused. I think that Ted Koppell seemed like he thought the same and tried to help Campanis out, but to no avail. I still believe that if Jackie Robinson had still been alive in 1988, he would have come to Campanis's defense. It's difficult for me to beliebve that a racist would have been willing to help out Jackie Robinson right from the start. Even the most tolerant of the Dodgers didn't seem to really accept him until after the 1947 season.

    Leave a comment:

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