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What if WE had WON in 1957?

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  • What if WE had WON in 1957?

    I have often thought what would have happened if WE had WON in 1957. It has always been my belief that the Big"O" would never have "allowed" that to happen because he knew all h*** would have broken out in BROOKLYN, if he then tried to take OUR DODGERS away.

    Were OUR DODGERS good enough to overcome Milwaukee in 1957? If so, what would then have ultimately been the outcome between "O" and Moses? Would NYC/BROOKLYN fought harder to keep them BROOKLYN?

    Your thoughts.

    c.

  • #2
    There is absolutely nothing to suggest anything would have been different....it is pretty clear from his actions that O'Malley had agreed to move to LA after the junket to Japan in 1956 when he saw the land the authorities in lala land were willing to hand over to him....

    Moses would not have acted differently....he thought (and in hindsight history has shown he was right) that the best place for the franchise would be Flushing Meadows which had everything one would need, ample land for parking, easy highway access to 3 different major highways, LIRR and subway service right outside the door....while it may not have been evident then, it is pretty obvious now that Atlantic Yards was the wrong place and even if Moses was so disposed, lawsuits would have held up anything for a decade or more...O'Malley's need for greed was so great that the embarassment of moving the pennant (or World championship) winning Dodgers from their proper home would not have been sufficient to stop him.

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    • #3
      I don't think it would chaned anything. I think the Dodgers would have still opened the 1958 season in LA. Without the stadium deal that he wanted, O'Malley was leaving.

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      • #4
        Dodger Deb, you bring up a very interesting subject............one that I've discussed with family and friends throughout the years. I truly believe O'Malley had made up his mind to move long before, and "made sure" the Bums would NOT win in 1957. Along with Jackie and Maglie gone, the club was short of a championship-caliber club. IMHO, it would have been VERY tough to pull a world champion team out of ANY city.
        you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
        http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by penncentralpete View Post
          Dodger Deb, you bring up a very interesting subject............one that I've discussed with family and friends throughout the years. I truly believe O'Malley had made up his mind to move long before, and "made sure" the Bums would NOT win in 1957. Along with Jackie and Maglie gone, the club was short of a championship-caliber club. IMHO, it would have been VERY tough to pull a world champion team out of ANY city.
          I also believe that O'Malley kept attendance lower that final season. My uncles called for tickets for more than a few games in '57 and were told it was a sellout, only to see on TV, many empty seats!
          you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
          http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

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          • #6
            Originally posted by penncentralpete View Post
            Dodger Deb, you bring up a very interesting subject............one that I've discussed with family and friends throughout the years. I truly believe O'Malley had made up his mind to move long before, and "made sure" the Bums would NOT win in 1957. Along with Jackie and Maglie gone, the club was short of a championship-caliber club. IMHO, it would have been VERY tough to pull a world champion team out of ANY city.
            According to Jackie himself, he had planned to retire at the end of 1956. Of course O'Malley didn't know that.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by LetsGoMets687 View Post
              According to Jackie himself, he had planned to retire at the end of 1956. Of course O'Malley didn't know that.
              Yes, that's what Jackie said when all was done (after he was traded to the Giants). According to Michael Shapiro's "The Last Good Season" (1956 season), Jackie said he still wanted to play in '57. He (Jackie) was quoted as saying that in the Brooklyn clubhouse toward the end of the year. All I'm saying is that IMHO the Dodger front office made no real attempt to win in '57.
              you can take the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, but you can't take the Brooklyn out of the DODGERS
              http://brooklyndodgermemories.freeforums.org/

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              • #8
                Friends:

                In my not-so-humble opinion there's NO QUESTION that The Dybbuk messed with the team and attendance in 1957 to keep the Dodgers out of contention. Consider that the Giants suffered as lousy a season and the same poor attendance patterns in 1957 as did the Dodgers. Quite a coincidence, no? No. It was the long, miserable goodbye.

                Keeping game attendance artificially low "proved" that Ebbets Field was unsatisfactory, and "proved" that Brooklyn fans had lost interest in the team. By the way, does anybody know if routine maintenance at Ebbets Field had fallen off in the last years?

                Trading Jackie to the Giants was the smoking gun. It was an act of betrayal to the fanbase, sending Jackie over to the "enemy." And what if Jackie had gone? Would a percentage of Dodger fans have followed further reducing the fanbase? Quite possibly.

                Of course, given O'Malley's questionable comments about the "types" of fans that had begun to attend games---I believe the quote was something along the lines of "Not the type of fans we want"---trading Jackie was a slap to those loyal Dodger fans who were "not the type of fans" he wanted, and he very neatly could have rid himself of them (or so he likely thought); he certainly didn't care about that "type" of fan (or any other, really), and fan dissatisfaction would have (once again) "proved" that the Dodgers had outstayed their welcome in Brooklyn. Logic tells us that fans stay away from losing teams. But all so-called "types" of Dodger fans admired and loved Jackie and the rest of the team and have continued to do so. So, as far as going gentle into that good night, O'Malley's plan didn't work.

                O'Malley WANTED to KILL loyalty to the team so that the move to LA would come to pass unheeded. He NEEDED the Dodgers to slink out of Brooklyn with tails tucked, not go proudly. But, as we all know, loyal fans are loyal fans and Brooklyn fans are INSANELY loyal!

                A contending Dodger team would have bollixed up his LA plans but good . . .

                Just imagine a high voltage 1951-type playoff in 1957 between the Giants and the Dodgers capped off by their double move at the end of the season!

                I doubt very much if O'Malley would have been able to leave his house in Amityville to get to the airport to fly to LA if that had happened. The outcry would have been deafening. Even Wishy-Washy Wagner would have had to do something.

                But foul the spark plug that keeps the motor running, let the pipes leak in the walls, "sell out" empty seats in the park, sit and say, "I told you so!" when surveying your results, and a trip to LA is in the offing.

                It doesn't surprise me that Baby Doc (Peter) O'Malley had to commission a study as to why Brooklyn fans hate his father. The O'Malleys clearly never appreciated what they were stewards of in Brooklyn...or in LA. That's why "those" Dodgers forgot how to be "our" Dodgers . . . or anybody else's.

                Spirit of '55:cap:

                "Let's Bring The Dodgers Home Before The Big Quake, Else The Fault Will Be Ours!"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by penncentralpete View Post
                  Yes, that's what Jackie said when all was done (after he was traded to the Giants). According to Michael Shapiro's "The Last Good Season" (1956 season), Jackie said he still wanted to play in '57. He (Jackie) was quoted as saying that in the Brooklyn clubhouse toward the end of the year. All I'm saying is that IMHO the Dodger front office made no real attempt to win in '57.
                  No, that's not true. That directly contradicts what Jackie said in his own words in his appearance on Meet the Press in April, 1957, and what Newk claims as well. Robinson had decided in the middle of the '56 season that he was retiring at the end of the season--he had no plans to play in 1957. He did not retire after being traded--that's a myth, at least if you believe Jackie's own words.

                  Just Google "Jackie Robinson Meet the Press" and you can read the whole transcript.

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                  • #10
                    Is that really why Sal Maglie was traded after the 56 season? With him being such a good, intimidating pitcher, it is surprising that the Dodgers would be willing to sell him.

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                    • #11
                      Maglie was 6-6 in '57 and clearly on the way down.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LetsGoMets687 View Post
                        No, that's not true. That directly contradicts what Jackie said in his own words in his appearance on Meet the Press in April, 1957, and what Newk claims as well. Robinson had decided in the middle of the '56 season that he was retiring at the end of the season--he had no plans to play in 1957. He did not retire after being traded--that's a myth, at least if you believe Jackie's own words.

                        Just Google "Jackie Robinson Meet the Press" and you can read the whole transcript.
                        I think if Robinson had had anything left, he would have played for the Giants in 1957 in order to stick it to O'Malley and Bavasi. Stoneham offered him a good slaary, and if he had been able to play, I think he would have. I would have found the whole 'Robinson retitred rather than be traded' to be more believable if he had been traded to the Yankees (or any AL team for that matter).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Spirit of '55 View Post

                          O'Malley WANTED to KILL loyalty to the team so that the move to LA would come to pass unheeded. He NEEDED the Dodgers to slink out of Brooklyn with tails tucked, not go proudly. But, as we all know, loyal fans are loyal fans and Brooklyn fans are INSANELY loyal!
                          Personally, I don't think O'Malley cared one bit about fan loyalty. I think he cared about fans paying to see his team at the ballpark, not fans who kibbitzed about the team on the corner or watched the Dodgers on TV.

                          I also think that O'Malley wanting the Dodgers to slink out of Brooklyn is absurd. That would have weakened his bargaining position with LA city officials.

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                          • #14
                            Wow, just wow....

                            The Dodgers have been in Los Angeles 50 years now and people are still complaining about it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EdTarbusz View Post
                              I think if Robinson had had anything left, he would have played for the Giants in 1957 in order to stick it to O'Malley and Bavasi.
                              Jackie was not that kind of person. He retired because the time was right and he was ready to move on to other things. He had far too much class and dignity to change his plans in order to "stick it to O'Malley", or be "bought" by Stoneham.

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