Dodgers threaten to leave Los Angeles - 1958?!

[EdTarbusz]

Ed, there was a three-year leaseback arrangement between the Dodgers and Marvin Kratter. It covered 1957 (the Dodgers' last season) and 1958-59 (what I call the "twilight" years). The Dodgers had a further two-year option but declined to pick it up. I have to check again when exactly they took that decision.

I remember reading that Kratter had said that he would give the Dodgers the two yrear option if they needed it while building a new ballpark.

[six4three]

If proposition B had failed, I think the Dodgers would have moved to the Ft Worth area, probably by way of Jersey City while facilities in Ft Worth were being upgraded. I don't think they would have returned to Ebbets Field, even though I think they could have played there until 1961. I found a story form 1954 saying that the Dodgers were pondering a move to Ft Worth, since they had the territorial rights to that city.

I don't see them spending any time in Jersey City - it hadn't worked the last time O'Malley tried it, and it was too close to NYC besides.

I would suspect Minneapolis, which had a major league stadium all ready to go (patterned after Milwaukee County Stadium, designed to lure a franchise), not to mention that it had already been established as a viable new home by the Giants.

The Times archive doesn't seem to have anything on that Ft. Worth story - where'd you find it?

[EdTarbusz]

I don't see them spending any time in Jersey City - it hadn't worked the last time O'Malley tried it, and it was too close to NYC besides.

I would suspect Minneapolis, which had a major league stadium all ready to go (patterned after Milwaukee County Stadium, designed to lure a franchise), not to mention that it had already been established as a viable new home by the Giants.

The Times archive doesn't seem to have anything on that Ft. Worth story - where'd you find it?

I think they may have went to Jersey City for a year strictly for expediency. I don't think they would have went to Minneapolis, because that territory still belonged to the Giants. I think they would have eventually moved into their own territory in Texas. Without the Dodgers in LA, I think it is possible that the NL would have twisted Stoneham's arm to leave the west coast, and the Giants would have gone to Minneapolis.

I saw the Ft Worth story in one of the Cleveland papers. I think it was the Plain Dealer.

[MATHA531]

O'Malley exchanging NY for Minneapolis...Ft. Worth...you guys have to be kidding....the man had a great deal of "I don't give a damn" in him and most likely, not that we will ever really know of course, have gone back to Brooklyn, accepted Moses' offer to lease the location in Flushing Meadow and life would have gone on as if none of this had happened (remember how Dallas just threw out a year of programs calling it a bad dream); of course Stoneham would have felt awfully foolish out there on the left coast all by himself.

[Gotham]

I was 26 at the time. It's good I was not ten years younger when it happened. I shudder to think what other Brooklyn Dodgers fans would have said or done in the same situation.

Nevertheless, everytime I see film clips of Walter O' riding in that big open convertible during the 1958 LA welcoming ceremony, I still keep thinking of JFK.

It is the really disturbing comment here and Dodger Debs indictment of O'Malley's soul preceding it that cause these posters, and other "fans" to lose all their credibility and to appear foolish and inhumane. Sad.

[DODGER DEB]

It is the really disturbing comment here and Dodger Debs indictment of O'Malley's soul preceding it that cause these posters, and other "fans" to lose all their credibility and to appear foolish and inhumane. Sad.

With all due respect, Gotham, if you were not there and walked in OUR shoes with US, it's your commentary that loses all credibility and appears not only foolish and inhumane, but totally insensitive to OUR pain.

c.

[Gotham]

A soul is a very real thing and to say anybody is without a soul is more than rhetoric. Words have meaning. To advocate or wish for the violent death of a human being is wrong. Does a man moving his business from your town deserve a death sentence? Come on, lets get some perspective.

[Let's Go Mets!]

To advocate or wish for the violent death of a human being is wrong. Does a man moving his business from your town deserve a death sentence? Come on, lets get some perspective.

I didn't wish anything on him. I just expressed the viewpoint that seeing how much the man is loathed in some parts, I'm surprised that some crazed, fanatical fan didn't go after him in the motorcade.

As for Deb's statement that he was a "heartless....excuse for a human being" I happen to agree with it 100%.

O'Malley brought pain and sadness to many thousands.

[donzblock]

A soul is a very real thing and to say anybody is without a soul is more than rhetoric. Words have meaning. To advocate or wish for the violent death of a human being is wrong. Does a man moving his business from your town deserve a death sentence? Come on, lets get some perspective.

"Soul" is just a figurative term for deep pain. A "soul" does not have weight or a chemical formula. Also, nobody on this board advocated a violent death for O'Malley. Reread the original comment about O'Malley in the limo. What O'Malley did deserves the contempt and loathing we have heaped upon him, and what he did should have kept him out of the Hall.

[donzblock]

Agreed. It seems these bizarre people think they have a copyright on "pain". No matter what else goes on in the world, their pain is more real than anybody else could possibly imagine. (Note how the mod always capatalizes words like OUR, ME and MINE)

And of course that horrible--worse than having your children murdered pain, gives them license to talk of fantasies of the murder of Walter O'Malley, or damning his soul to hell, or whatever--all in the name of sickening rightousness.

These people give Brooklynites a bad name. Not that they care though.

Yes, we just don't care. Sob. Sob. Yes, our pain matters more than anyone else's! Sob. Sob. Nothing like an objective analysis of an opponent's views colored by a tiny little bit of exaggeration. Yes, losing the Brooklyn Dodgers was worse than having our children murdered. And, yes, we are awful to condemn OM to hell. Isn't that terrible? By the way, I need the exact address of hell, sir, so that I can be sure that the next person I send there actually arrives. The Post Office requires exact addresses, you know, particularly if I ask for return receipt requested. Sob. Sob. We just don't care.

[leecemark]

--I deleted whoisnot's original message and sent him a PM warning him that it exceeded the boundaries of decorum here at BBF. I will be deleting the response to it as well. This line of discussion must end now and those involved in this thread WILL be civil going forward.

[Let's Go Mets!]

What O'Malley did deserves the contempt and loathing we have heaped upon him, and what he did should have kept him out of the Hall.

Agreed......agreed.

O'Malley now being "rewarded", is just more pain to Brooklyn Dodger fans.

Why should we be happy with that?

[aqib]

I don't think so, but Stoneham returned to NY on Willie Mays night at Shea Stadium in 1973.

Stoneham was booed, but in my opinion, not loud enough.

It was not long after that that Stoneham actually talked about trying to get a new stadium built at the Meadowlands complex to move the Giants back to NY. Apparently NJ told him he could if he picked up the tab himself. So its possible his appearence was a way of laying the groundwork to moving back.

Don't mind me I tend to look for alterior motives...

[aqib]

And, yes, we are awful to condemn OM to hell. Isn't that terrible? By the way, I need the exact address of hell, sir, so that I can be sure that the next person I send there actually arrives. The Post Office requires exact addresses, you know, particularly if I ask for return receipt requested. Sob. Sob. We just don't care.

Pass the monitor cleaner, I just sprayed by screen with coffee

[six4three]

It was not long after that that Stoneham actually talked about trying to get a new stadium built at the Meadowlands complex to move the Giants back to NY. Apparently NJ told him he could if he picked up the tab himself. So its possible his appearence was a way of laying the groundwork to moving back.

Don't mind me I tend to look for alterior motives...

Wow! Do you have a source on that?