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Hypthetical Question - What if the Giants had Stayed

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  • LAS1914
    replied
    Horace Stoneham was a poor business man. The Giants if managed properly could have been profitable. The perfect solution in 1957 was to let the Dodgers build at Atlantic Avenue and let Moses build a stadium in Flushing and put both Giants teams there.

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  • The Real McCoy
    replied
    Originally posted by six4three View Post
    And there would have been a certain percentage of Dodger fans who still felt that way
    "If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one-had he the power-would be in silencing mankind." John Stuart Mill

    six4three: may I call you joe,johnny,frank? you seem to have gone declarative on us with your above articulation, differing a bit from the previous "I suspect." may I be bold enough to ask whether you were a Brooklyn Dodger fan in the 1950s? whether you attended many Dodger/Giant games in either Ebbets Field or the Polo Grounds? if so, I find your opinion strange in that, having experienced the year round animosity that existed between fans of the two teams you still posit the possibility of a Brooklyn Dodger fan transferring allegiance upon the departure of the team. if you were not around in the 1950s, I think it may partially explain your position but I would be interested in how you arrived at your now strong stance that indeed, "there would have been a certain percentage of Dodger fans who still felt this way."

    believe me, I am in no way questioning your right to your position on the subject. I think Mr. Mill is absolutely correct in his assertion of singular opinion. in fact, I may be the patron saint of the "I've been wrong but never uncertain" school of thinking (cue the board's greek chorus for a rousing "you got that right"). I'm simply curious at how you arrived your stance: through personal experience, printed word, or conversations with Dodger fans who secretly dressed in Giant garb behind locked doors or in the marshes out near Floyd Bennett Field.

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  • Let's Go Mets!
    replied
    Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post

    But this cretin told the fans, "No big deal. They'll be Yankee fans."
    That's funny. In 1958, I tried to become a Yankee fan, and it lasted for just three weeks. It was like drinking Cod Liver oil. For me, it would have been easier rooting for the Giants had they stayed.

    Fifty years later, look how crazy Walter O'Malley has made me. Whereas I probably would have been a lifelong Brooklyn Dodger fan, I now root for the New York Mets, New York Yankees (huh?), and Staten Island Yankees.

    The only team not on that list is the Brooklyn Cyclones. Maybe that means I should hate them. Do I? Not really, but I still do HATE Walter O'Malley!

    May his Hall of Fame plaque fall and break, and shatter into a million pieces.
    Last edited by Let's Go Mets!; 07-15-2008, 12:06 PM.

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  • Let's Go Mets!
    replied
    Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post
    But in theory, we had a Commissioner a clown named Ford C. Frick who was charged to act in the best interests of baseball and of course there is no question that the theft of the Brooklyn franchise was not in the best interests of baseball (as later events clearly showed)......

    But this cretin told the fans, "No big deal. They'll be Yankee fans."
    As I said before, put O'Malley's HOF plaque between Ford Frick and Warren Giles.

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  • MATHA531
    replied
    Originally posted by Let's Go Mets! View Post
    I once heard Bowie Kuhn state that if he were Commisioner at the time, he would have blocked the move. Anybody know more about this?
    But in theory, we had a Commissioner a clown named Ford C. Frick who was charged to act in the best interests of baseball and of course there is no question that the theft of the Brooklyn franchise was not in the best interests of baseball (as later events clearly showed)......

    But this cretin told the fans, "No big deal. They'll be Yankee fans."

    Leave a comment:


  • Let's Go Mets!
    replied
    Originally posted by MATHA531 View Post

    But as others have pointed out, this was simply impossible to occur. If the Giants don't go to Frisco, the Dodgers can't go to lala land.
    I once heard Bowie Kuhn state that if he were Commisioner at the time, he would have blocked the move. Anybody know more about this?

    Leave a comment:


  • MATHA531
    replied
    Originally posted by donzblock View Post
    The Cleveland Browns' fan has given the sportsworld a blueprint to follow when a city loses its team for the wrong reasons. The LA franchise should not have been allowed to use the name "Dodgers" or to claim any of the history of the Brooklyn Dodgers. And the same applies to the franchise in SF: it is possible that with a new park, the Giants would have become a popular money-making franchise again; New York could have supported three teams.
    Ah...say it right...

    New York could have supported two teams and the separate city of Brooklyn (as far as baseball was concerned) could have supported 1 team!

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  • donzblock
    replied
    The Cleveland Browns' fan has given the sportsworld a blueprint to follow when a city loses its team for the wrong reasons. The LA franchise should not have been allowed to use the name "Dodgers" or to claim any of the history of the Brooklyn Dodgers. And the same applies to the franchise in SF: it is possible that with a new park, the Giants would have become a popular money-making franchise again; New York could have supported three teams.

    Leave a comment:


  • aqib
    replied
    Originally posted by The Real McCoy View Post
    that's not hypothetical, it's rhetorical!

    I was a Cleveland Browns fan simply because of my inability to root for any team called the New York Giants.

    turned off baseball? for what? Gaelic football in Van Cortland Park?
    There is nothing wrong with being a Cleveland Browns fan. I am a Cleveland Browns fan. Although it must be tough for you since you had to deal with the real Walter O'Malley and the Walter O'Malley of the 90s.

    I know the Dodgers wouldn't have been allowed to go to LA without the Giants, I was just curious how the fans would have responded in theory had it worked out that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • MATHA531
    replied
    The whole thing was Brooklyn was not New York; especially Manhattan....the whole thing that made the Dodgers was that it gave Brooklyn a separate identity. Now we've had this ongoing discussion about the Dodgers moving to Queens...well Queens and Brooklyn really are part of one geographical mass (as are Nassau and Suffolk counties) and I've sort of adopted the position that since the four counties make up the Eastern District of New York as far as the federal courts are concerned and since the federal court is located in Brooklyn, Brooklyn is sort of the capital of Long Island! (I'm sure our friends in Queens, Nassau and Suffolk don't see it the same way of course) meaning I would have had no problem with the Brooklyn Dodgers playing in Queens and sort of, after everything calmed down, could consider the Mets almost a Brooklyn team but the Giants...well to use a New York expression no way Jose.

    But as others have pointed out, this was simply impossible to occur. If the Giants don't go to Frisco, the Dodgers can't go to lala land.

    Leave a comment:


  • six4three
    replied
    And there would have been a certain percentage of Dodger fans who still felt that way.

    On the other hand, there were and continue to be a lot of Dodger fans who adopted the Mets without facing any pitchforks. Had the Giants stayed in the city that the Dodgers cravenly abandoned, some of those Met fans would have migrated to the Giants.

    Leave a comment:


  • DODGER DEB
    replied
    A loyal and true BROOKLYN DODGER FAN turning to root for the black and orange? Goodness grief, people would have looked at you and wondered if you had lost your mind, if you even suggested that back in 1958.

    It just would NEVER have ever happened!

    Always loyal and true to OUR DODGERS.....forever! OUR forum is absolute proof of that...51 years later!

    c.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Real McCoy
    replied
    Originally posted by six4three View Post

    But hypothetically, had the Dodgers left and the Giants stayed, I suspect a certain amount of Dodger fans would have become fans of the black and orange.
    and torches and pitchforks would have been unsheathed in carriage rooms all across the borough and those recreants would have been hunted down from Front Street to the Flatbush Avenue Extension from Red Hook to the Queens line and burned at the stake at Atlantic and Flatbush, hypothetically, of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • donzblock
    replied
    I have never met a Brooklyn Dodger fan who would have considered rooting for the New York Giants. That is unthinkable. Now I am sure that many New York Giant fans would have been delighted to root for the Brooklyn Dodgers if the latter had stayed and the former had moved. That does make sense, of course, but for a Brooklyn Dodger fan to descend into the depths dug by Hilda with her cowbell, impossible!

    Leave a comment:


  • six4three
    replied
    As others have said, O'Malley needed Stoneham to facilitate his move out west.

    But hypothetically, had the Dodgers left and the Giants stayed, I suspect a certain amount of Dodger fans would have become fans of the black and orange. After all, many embraced the Mets a few years later. Now, I know it's not exactly the same, since the Mets were never a crosstown rival of the Dodgers, but it still strikes me as possible.

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