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Who were the Expos' biggest rivals?

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  • HDH
    replied
    The Expos had one star: Steve Rogers when nearly all at once in the late 1970s early 1980s when Gary Carter, Larry Parrish, Andre Dawson, Ellis Valentine, Warren Cromartie, Scott Sanderson, Bill Gullickson, David Palmer and Charlie Lea, Jeff Reardon, Dan Schatzader, Bryn Smith... pretty much came up all within a couple years. They traded for Tony Perez, Rusty Staub, Dave Cash, Ron LeFlore and Woody Fryman various years to make a run for the division title. The Pirates dominated the division before that and the Phillies matured at the same time the Expos did. Moreover, the few Expos deep feeling fans feel that Expos Manager Dick Williams' sometimes mysterious dog house moves such as the swapping of sparkplug SS Tim Foli for SS Chris Speier and eventual benching of 2B Dave Cash in favor of Rodney Scott as well as the team's streakiness slowed the chances every year... In truth, the closest thing the Expos had to a rival was the Montreal Canadians.

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  • Imgran
    replied
    It's not just about folks in the Montreal area. It's that kind of regional thinking that killed Them. You have to be able to market out of region to maximize revenue. If the Quebecois are so insular that they didn't even seriously try to market out of region to anglophones, like me (an American), who were attracted to the Expos during their heyday in the late 80's early 90's, that's a good part of the cause of death.

    There isn't a single regional team in all of baseball. No team that is not national/international in some way will avoid being moved or contracted.

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post
    it's just not a huge deal.
    Just noting the comparison to RDS isn't quite the same. I suspect that if the Canadiens dropped their English or French radio broadcast, they would experience a drop in its radio audience.

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  • Bitter Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by tinseltown View Post
    Watching and listening are two different things, though; with video you don't even need any sound to follow the game, whereas with radio, you need to have a certain comfort level with the announcers' language to really enjoy the broadcast. And in fact with French TV broadcasts, many anglos will mute the volume and turn on the English radiocast (for the Expos games, particularly so in the days of Duke and Dave).
    How many anglos in Montreal don't speak French at this point? Maybe the older ones, but it seems like virtually everybody under 50 has at worst a good command at French and many are fluent. Considering even in Montreal they're a distinct minority it's just not a huge deal.

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post
    It was sad that Dave van Horne had to do broadcasts over the Internet, but not having English language radio is hardly a dealbreaker in Montreal where even the anglophones speak fluent French. It's not like they walk around in a haze wehn the Habs are only on RDS...they just sit and watch the game like everybody else.
    Watching and listening are two different things, though; with video you don't even need any sound to follow the game, whereas with radio, you need to have a certain comfort level with the announcers' language to really enjoy the broadcast. And in fact with French TV broadcasts, many anglos will mute the volume and turn on the English radiocast (for the Expos games, particularly so in the days of Duke and Dave).

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by Imgran View Post
    If you don't even have an English language station, fans who were not in Quebec and did like the Expos, like me, and especially those who followed via radio, like me, had limited opportunities to enjoy the team and thus less reason to get engaged or stay engaged.
    The Expos were the first team to have a regular Internet broadcast, which on one hand made them accessible from anywhere in the world, but on the other hand, only to those with good Internet access. A few years later, with the spread of Internet and satellite radio, it might have been just the thing to help the team get a better rights deal, but the time wasn't right then.

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  • Imgran
    replied
    It does tend to limit fan exposure outside Quebec in an era where out of market exposure was starting to become very important indeed. I know the Red Sox broadcast in Spanish, not because there's that many hispanophones in Boston, there's more than a few, but the real reason is because it increases brand exposure in Latin America and helps bring in revenue.

    If you don't even have an English language station, fans who were not in Quebec and did like the Expos, like me, and especially those who followed via radio, like me, had limited opportunities to enjoy the team and thus less reason to get engaged or stay engaged. That means less money, especially in a league where everyone else does this more or less by default because everyone in North America north of the Rio Grande speaks the same language other than Quebec. The fact that you're the only francophone team just makes it all the more critical.

    The indifference to out of market exposure and the lack of attempts to address the language barrier as a major limiting factor for revenue growth is a big part of what sunk the Expos.
    Last edited by Imgran; 03-18-2011, 07:41 AM.

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  • rlg
    replied
    Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post
    It was sad that Dave van Horne had to do broadcasts over the Internet, but not having English language radio is hardly a dealbreaker in Montreal where even the anglophones speak fluent French. It's not like they walk around in a haze wehn the Habs are only on RDS...they just sit and watch the game like everybody else.
    Exactly... In fact, as far as I am concerned, the hockey on RDS is far better than it is on CBC. I am an anglophone and I always watch the habs on RDS in French.

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  • Bitter Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by tinseltown View Post
    If you're referring to the English radio broadcast problems after Jeffrey Loria bought the team, the issue was money; apparently no station wanted to pay for broadcast rights. English language broadcasts resumed in 2001 when sponsors were found for the radiocasts.
    It was sad that Dave van Horne had to do broadcasts over the Internet, but not having English language radio is hardly a dealbreaker in Montreal where even the anglophones speak fluent French. It's not like they walk around in a haze wehn the Habs are only on RDS...they just sit and watch the game like everybody else.

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  • rlg
    replied
    Originally posted by Uncle Charlie View Post
    I'm wondering if any former Expos fans could tell me who they considered the team's biggest rivals
    I would say the Toronto Blue Jays. In 1978, a series began called The Pearson Cup It was an annual mid-season exhibition game between Canadian rivals, the Toronto Blue Jays and the Montreal Expos.

    Regards
    Robert

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by Steven Gallanter View Post
    The last straw for the Expos was when they weren't even getting radio broadcasts of their games due to political infighting regarding American content.
    If you're referring to the English radio broadcast problems after Jeffrey Loria bought the team, the issue was money; apparently no station wanted to pay for broadcast rights. English language broadcasts resumed in 2001 when sponsors were found for the radiocasts.

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  • Steven Gallanter
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    Is no one an option?

    The expos were neither lousy enough to enjoin sympathy or disgust (if you're team lost to them) nor good enough to bring elation if your team beat them. The were quite simply a nondescript franchise who wore funny uniforms and played in a brand new obsolete stadium. The expos (and this is probably the nicest thing you can say about them) never were so bad nor truly exceptional. They were the Chrysler reliant K Car...utterly forgettable. It's hard to "rival" that.
    The Mets were my #1 team growing up in Long Island, N.Y. but the Expos vied with the Pirates and the Astros for being my secondary teams. The Gene Mauch teams were immensely entertaining; Larry Lintz, Bobby Wine, Ron Hunt, Ken Singleton, Steve Renko et al, and the Dick Williams and 90's era teams all had their merits.

    The last straw for the Expos was when they weren't even getting radio broadcasts of their games due to political infighting regarding American content.

    "Forgettable"? I think not. I remember.

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  • Imgran
    replied
    Unfortunately, I agree. And the other problem was that in that division they had no teams for whom there was a reason outside baseball to be interested in playing them. Which for a perennial middle-of-the-packer is a bit of a death knell.

    One thing about many of the old rivalries that thrive in real baseball is that there's a reason besides baseball itself to sustain them and make them interesting. Example: Boston and New York are rivals in the financial and business sector, and a traditional competitiveness has always existed between New England yankees and the New York flavor. It makes it easy to want to watch your team win games against that team and more of a suckerpunch when you lose at the last minute.

    Now if Montreal had been in the American League, that would have existed, rivalries certainly exist between Montreal and Toronto for reasons outside baseball, and ditto for Boston. Getting up for a baseball rematch with Montreal when the Habs clean Boston's clock would have been interesting, pity it didn't happen.

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  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Is no one an option?

    The expos were neither lousy enough to enjoin sympathy or disgust (if your team lost to them) nor good enough to bring elation if your team beat them. The were quite simply a nondescript franchise who wore funny uniforms and played in a brand new obsolete stadium. The expos (and this is probably the nicest thing you can say about them) never were so bad nor truly exceptional. They were the Chrysler reliant K Car...utterly forgettable. It's hard to "rival" that.
    Last edited by MSUlaxer27; 03-23-2011, 01:53 PM.

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  • Steven Gallanter
    replied
    Originally posted by SteveJRogers View Post
    But then again, the Mets were the first, and the last opponents the Montreal Expos ever faced.

    Not to mention several key deals between the two clubs with varying results for each team:

    Staub for Singelton
    Valentine for Reardon
    Carter for Brooks
    Burke for Darling
    etc
    The Mets and Expos had several brawls in the 70's.

    One that I witnessed was between Expos catcher Ron Brand and Mets backstop Jerry Grote when Grote was behind the plate. Grote had the "scrappy" rep and both he and Brand were products of the Houston Colt 45s/Astro organization.

    Expo 2nd. baseman Ron Hunt always got a big hand at Shea from fans who remembered him as one of the first Mets to be competent.

    I remember Lindsay Nelson of WOR-9 lamenting the loss of Steve Renko.

    Don Hahn and Don Shaw also played for both teams.

    I always liked the Expos!

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