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Dawson: Chapeau d'Expos pour Hall

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  • Dawson: Chapeau d'Expos pour Hall

    ESPN report

    ESPN saying Chicago Trib is reporting Dawson sent them a text that the Hall will issue a press release today confirming he will be sporting an Expos cap in the Hall.

  • #2
    one last moment in the sun.

    Comment


    • #3
      I confess that as a baseball fan, I didn't support Dawson going into the Hall of Fame, but as an Expos fan, I'm happy to see another Expo joining the ranks. I hope when the Cubs and Marlins honour him (I suppose the Nats could too -- perhaps re-retire #10? -- though given their disavowal of the Nats' past, it would be blatantly opportunistic), they will provide the opportunity for his Montreal mates to wish him well. Congratulations to a very classy person getting recognition for his dedication and grace that many admired over the years.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why was he complaining about being inducted as a Expo?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by aqib View Post
          Why was he complaining about being inducted as a Expo?
          1. Montreal is a dead franchise. He can't have a meaningful ceremony honoring this achievement at a regular season game. (The Nats have effectively disowned their prior incarnation, so it won't or probably shouldn't happen in D.C.).

          2. He felt that Chicago was where he garnered the national recognition to earn entry into the hall.

          3. The Cubs (allegedly) would have retired his number if he had a Cubs hat on his plague. It's really the second greatest honor a player can receive.

          Basically, he is going into the hall as orphan. Going in as a Cub would have allowed him to reconnect with the city and franchise and all the things that that means.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
            1. Montreal is a dead franchise. He can't have a meaningful ceremony honoring this achievement at a regular season game. (The Nats have effectively disowned their prior incarnation, so it won't or probably shouldn't happen in D.C.).

            2. He felt that Chicago was where he garnered the national recognition to earn entry into the hall.

            3. The Cubs (allegedly) would have retired his number if he had a Cubs hat on his plague. It's really the second greatest honor a player can receive.

            Basically, he is going into the hall as orphan. Going in as a Cub would have allowed him to reconnect with the city and franchise and all the things that that means.
            1) There were Dodgers who went in with B's on their cap even though they played in LA and Brooklyn no longer existed. He can still have a ceremony at Wrigley. He can also do one at a Habs game. They have Youppi! and a banner dedicated to the Expos with all the retired numbers.

            2) I can't argue with that but most of his tie and numbers were piled up in Montreal

            3) The Expos already did and the Cubs can still do it.

            I don't have a problem with him WANTING to go in as something other than an Expo I have a problem with him COMPLAINING about it. Expos fans have lost their team and realistically have no hope of getting one back for at least 10-15 years, I don't think its too much to as for a player who built his career there and was well supported to not go "FU I don't want to acknowledge I had anythign to do with you!!!!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by aqib View Post
              1) There were Dodgers who went in with B's on their cap even though they played in LA and Brooklyn no longer existed. He can still have a ceremony at Wrigley. He can also do one at a Habs game. They have Youppi! and a banner dedicated to the Expos with all the retired numbers.

              2) I can't argue with that but most of his tie and numbers were piled up in Montreal

              3) The Expos already did and the Cubs can still do it.

              I don't have a problem with him WANTING to go in as something other than an Expo I have a problem with him COMPLAINING about it. Expos fans have lost their team and realistically have no hope of getting one back for at least 10-15 years, I don't think its too much to as for a player who built his career there and was well supported to not go "FU I don't want to acknowledge I had anythign to do with you!!!!"
              You're thinking like a fan, which is understandable.

              From a player's standpoint it's a bit different I suppose having your jersey retired by an active franchise vs. having your HOF ceremony (or number retirement ceremony) at a hockey arena during a period break.

              I don't think it was a case of FU to Montreal, but historically and financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub as opposed to an Expo.

              Quite frankly if it hadn't have been for Wade Boggs definitely (and Dave Winfield probably), it wouldn't have been an issue and he would have gone in the Hall as a Cub. It is only because of the Hall's new policy that he had to be as vocal as he was in hopes he could go in as a Cub.

              I'm sure he will still have a ceremony at Wrigley, but it won't be a number retirement ceremony.

              I think your Bkln/LA and Mont./D.C. analogy is incorrect. The difference being that LA acknowledged if not celebrated their Brooklyn heritage, while D.C. does not recognize Montreal.

              Comment


              • #8
                The HOF is not about the player's wishes, financial gain etc., it's about the preservation of the game, He's an Expos, like or or not.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
                  Quite frankly if it hadn't have been for Wade Boggs definitely (and Dave Winfield probably)
                  Do you have any references regarding Boggs? I did some searching before, and found no confirmed statement about Boggs having a clause in his Tampa Bay contract regarding the Hall of Fame (Boggs has denied it).

                  Though I can understand Dawson's feelings of disappointment, bottom line is that he is a Hall of Famer now and still a former Cubbie, and I don't believe the logo on his plaque will do anything to diminish his Chicago ties or negatively affect his financial position.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I still don't understand his "disappointment" (or anyone else's in similar position). Play baseball for a living, make millions, have adoring fans and be enshrined into the baseball HOF. He should be grateful and especially to an organization that gave him the opportunity to play in the big leagues.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
                      You're thinking like a fan, which is understandable.

                      From a player's standpoint it's a bit different I suppose having your jersey retired by an active franchise vs. having your HOF ceremony (or number retirement ceremony) at a hockey arena during a period break.

                      I don't think it was a case of FU to Montreal, but historically and financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub as opposed to an Expo.

                      Quite frankly if it hadn't have been for Wade Boggs definitely (and Dave Winfield probably), it wouldn't have been an issue and he would have gone in the Hall as a Cub. It is only because of the Hall's new policy that he had to be as vocal as he was in hopes he could go in as a Cub.

                      I'm sure he will still have a ceremony at Wrigley, but it won't be a number retirement ceremony.

                      I think your Bkln/LA and Mont./D.C. analogy is incorrect. The difference being that LA acknowledged if not celebrated their Brooklyn heritage, while D.C. does not recognize Montreal.
                      Really you can just come off the condescending spiel and say "financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub...".

                      He wants to be a Cub because he can get more money writing "ANDRE DAWSON HOF" on 8x10s with him in a Cub jersey. He might be able to parlay it into one of those no-show special assistant to a GM roles. He can do appearances in Chicagoland.

                      And you know what? He can probably still do a lot of those if he wants to. But that it's almost his entire reasoning for wanting to be a Cub - not world championships, memorable moments, et al. - makes me unsympathetic.

                      Stop whining Hawk. A lot of us know you're a borderline Hall of Famer at best. Consider yourself VERY lucky that steroids came around, because without it you'd likely not have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tinseltown View Post
                        Do you have any references regarding Boggs? I did some searching before, and found no confirmed statement about Boggs having a clause in his Tampa Bay contract regarding the Hall of Fame (Boggs has denied it).

                        Though I can understand Dawson's feelings of disappointment, bottom line is that he is a Hall of Famer now and still a former Cubbie, and I don't believe the logo on his plaque will do anything to diminish his Chicago ties or negatively affect his financial position.
                        I haven't been able to find anything except for Boggs' denials of the clause...kind of odd though that the Hall changed it's former stance of acceding to a players wishes in 2001, after Boggs retired (when the cap stuff was floating around) but before he was elected.

                        The difference for Dawson and the Cubs is that now he is a Hall of famer who played for the Cubs as opposed to a Cub Hall of Famer.

                        Going in as an expo does not diminish his Chicago ties, but going in as a Cub most definitely would have enhanced them. The word is (and much like Boggs situation it is all conjecture) that Chicago would have retired his number if he'd gone in as a Cub. Which is true baseball immortality, being elected to the HOF (the greatest honor to be sure) where 300K + visit a year or having your number retired by a franchise that has an annual attendance of around 3 million (plus all home games televised)? In which situation is a son more likely to ask his Dad about Andre Dawson?

                        His number may still be retired by the Cubs and this will all be moot. I'm just suggesting to look at it from his side today, when the expos no longer exist. The expos can't doing anything for him anymore, while the Cubs can.
                        Last edited by MSUlaxer27; 02-11-2010, 05:19 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by exposhistory View Post
                          I still don't understand his "disappointment" (or anyone else's in similar position). Play baseball for a living, make millions, have adoring fans and be enshrined into the baseball HOF. He should be grateful and especially to an organization that gave him the opportunity to play in the big leagues.
                          I'm sure he is grateful to the people who selected him in the 1975 draft and helped him make his way to the major leagues, I'm sure he's thankful to the fans in Montreal who supported him while he played there. But how do you show gratitude to a franchise that doesn't exist?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post
                            Really you can just come off the condescending spiel and say "financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub...".

                            He wants to be a Cub because he can get more money writing "ANDRE DAWSON HOF" on 8x10s with him in a Cub jersey. He might be able to parlay it into one of those no-show special assistant to a GM roles. He can do appearances in Chicagoland.

                            And you know what? He can probably still do a lot of those if he wants to. But that it's almost his entire reasoning for wanting to be a Cub - not world championships, memorable moments, et al. - makes me unsympathetic.

                            Stop whining Hawk. A lot of us know you're a borderline Hall of Famer at best. Consider yourself VERY lucky that steroids came around, because without it you'd likely not have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.
                            He's actually a member of the Marlins organization, he lives in and is from Florida, so I don't think he's working the job angle. Do you begrudge the man an opportunity to make money?

                            Are saying that he was elected because of the backlash against steroid users or that you believe that he used steroids?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
                              The difference for Dawson and the Cubs is that now he is a Hall of famer who played for the Cubs as opposed to a Cub Hall of Famer.
                              Which is still a Cub Hall of Famer -- the Hall of Fame lists honorees based on all clubs they were associated with. For example, if you search for Expos Hall of Famers at the Hall computers (and on the web site, before it started its current re-design), Frank Robinson's name comes up, even though he was elected for his accomplishments in a different league than the Expos played in.

                              Semantics aside, though, if fans are willing to pay the new going rate for an autographed photo of Dawson in a Cubs uniform, they aren't going to change their minds based on the logo appearing on his cap on a plaque in Cooperstown.

                              Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
                              His number may still be retired by the Cubs and this will all be moot.
                              If the Cubs are truly a high-class organization, they ought to base their decision solely on Dawson's accomplishments, including his election to the Hall of Fame, and not what his plaque looks like.

                              Comment

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