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Dawson: Chapeau d'Expos pour Hall

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  • aqib
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    Just curious, because all the articles I have read have him expressing thanks to expos fans for their support of him while he played in Montreal. Do you feel his "disrespect" to expos fans is based on comments he made or just the simple fact that he expressed a desire to go in as a Cub?
    I recall reading comments in an article when the decision was still up in the air that were disrespectful of Montreal and his time there. I don't recall where I read it otherwise I would post the lnk.

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  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontarioguy View Post
    I was happy to see that Dawson will be going into the Hall wearing the Expos cap. It's a unique look that only Tim Raines might be able to also achieve. I'm looking forward to the ceremony and to read lots of great stories about those great 70s-80s teams he was a part of.
    Much the like french in the movie "The Holy Grail"...Tell him we already got one...

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...artega01.shtml

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  • Ontarioguy
    replied
    I was happy to see that Dawson will be going into the Hall wearing the Expos cap. It's a unique look that only Tim Raines might be able to also achieve. I'm looking forward to the ceremony and to read lots of great stories about those great 70s-80s teams he was a part of.

    Leave a comment:


  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Just curious, because all the articles I have read have him expressing thanks to expos fans for their support of him while he played in Montreal. Do you feel his "disrespect" to expos fans is based on comments he made or just the simple fact that he expressed a desire to go in as a Cub?

    Leave a comment:


  • aqib
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    Frank Robinson, Carlton Fisk and Jackson all went in with teams that they played substantially less games with (O's, Bo Sox and Yanks) althought you could make an argument that those organizations are where they made their greatest impact. (I'm not making that argument I'm just saying it could be made.) You could make a similar argument for Dawson. His only MVP and a playoff appearance as a Cub vs. an MVP runner up, ROY and the strike shortened '81 playoffs as an expo.

    As far as Dawson goes, he gave Chicago a blank contract to escape Montreal, do you think he cares one bit about anything related to Montreal or the expos? What happened to them has nothing to do with him. You care because you're a fan...it's a business to him.

    I can completely understand why he doesn't want to be associated with a dead franchise.

    In fairness, he has expressed has said thanks to expos fans for supporting him.
    Well the blank contract was due to league wide collusion. I am actually not an Expos fan, I am a Jays fan but I like baseball history of which the Expos are a part. Historical accuracy would dictate he goes in as an Expo. The same reason why that in the announcement show, Dawson was shown as an Expo. Lastly, I will reiterate what I said before its fine with me that he had a preference to go in as a Cub, even if he had a strong preference towards going in as a Cub. Its just his comments disresecting the Expos fans.

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  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Originally posted by aqib View Post
    Canseco had that clause when he signed with Tampa but he wound up not getting in the Hall. There is also Reggie JAckson who agreed to go in as a Yankee and they agreed to retire his number and gave him a front office job. He is clearly more an A than a Yankee.

    As for Dawson, I will just say what I said before, its ok to have a preference, even a strong one, but in light of what has happened to the Expos and their fans, he could have had a bit more class.
    Frank Robinson, Carlton Fisk and Jackson all went in with teams that they played substantially less games with (O's, Bo Sox and Yanks) althought you could make an argument that those organizations are where they made their greatest impact. (I'm not making that argument I'm just saying it could be made.) You could make a similar argument for Dawson. His only MVP and a playoff appearance as a Cub vs. an MVP runner up, ROY and the strike shortened '81 playoffs as an expo.

    As far as Dawson goes, he gave Chicago a blank contract to escape Montreal, do you think he cares one bit about anything related to Montreal or the expos? What happened to them has nothing to do with him. You care because you're a fan...it's a business to him.

    I can completely understand why he doesn't want to be associated with a dead franchise.

    In fairness, he has said thanks to expos fans for supporting him.
    Last edited by MSUlaxer27; 02-11-2010, 04:22 AM.

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  • aqib
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    I haven't been able to find anything except for Boggs' denials of the clause...kind of odd though that the Hall changed it's former stance of acceding to a players wishes in 2001, after Boggs retired (when the cap stuff was floating arund) but before he was elected.
    Canseco had that clause when he signed with Tampa but he wound up not getting in the Hall. There is also Reggie JAckson who agreed to go in as a Yankee and they agreed to retire his number and gave him a front office job. He is clearly more an A than a Yankee.

    As for Dawson, I will just say what I said before, its ok to have a preference, even a strong one, but in light of what has happened to the Expos and their fans, he could have had a bit more class.

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by exposhistory View Post
    I still don't understand his "disappointment" (or anyone else's in similar position). Play baseball for a living, make millions, have adoring fans and be enshrined into the baseball HOF. He should be grateful and especially to an organization that gave him the opportunity to play in the big leagues.
    Disappointment doesn't necessarily mean a lack of gratitude, nor does it mean bitterness or anger. I'm disappointed in Dawson's public statements, but I remain grateful for his having served his teams with grace and professionalism over his career. And to be honest, my disappointment probably says more about me than him (players can have their own reasons for feeling a greater sense of allegiance to one club over another, apart from just the numbers).
    Last edited by tinseltown; 01-31-2010, 09:46 AM.

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  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    The difference for Dawson and the Cubs is that now he is a Hall of famer who played for the Cubs as opposed to a Cub Hall of Famer.
    Which is still a Cub Hall of Famer -- the Hall of Fame lists honorees based on all clubs they were associated with. For example, if you search for Expos Hall of Famers at the Hall computers (and on the web site, before it started its current re-design), Frank Robinson's name comes up, even though he was elected for his accomplishments in a different league than the Expos played in.

    Semantics aside, though, if fans are willing to pay the new going rate for an autographed photo of Dawson in a Cubs uniform, they aren't going to change their minds based on the logo appearing on his cap on a plaque in Cooperstown.

    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    His number may still be retired by the Cubs and this will all be moot.
    If the Cubs are truly a high-class organization, they ought to base their decision solely on Dawson's accomplishments, including his election to the Hall of Fame, and not what his plaque looks like.

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  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post
    Really you can just come off the condescending spiel and say "financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub...".

    He wants to be a Cub because he can get more money writing "ANDRE DAWSON HOF" on 8x10s with him in a Cub jersey. He might be able to parlay it into one of those no-show special assistant to a GM roles. He can do appearances in Chicagoland.

    And you know what? He can probably still do a lot of those if he wants to. But that it's almost his entire reasoning for wanting to be a Cub - not world championships, memorable moments, et al. - makes me unsympathetic.

    Stop whining Hawk. A lot of us know you're a borderline Hall of Famer at best. Consider yourself VERY lucky that steroids came around, because without it you'd likely not have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.
    He's actually a member of the Marlins organization, he lives in and is from Florida, so I don't think he's working the job angle. Do you begrudge the man an opportunity to make money?

    Are saying that he was elected because of the backlash against steroid users or that you believe that he used steroids?

    Leave a comment:


  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Originally posted by exposhistory View Post
    I still don't understand his "disappointment" (or anyone else's in similar position). Play baseball for a living, make millions, have adoring fans and be enshrined into the baseball HOF. He should be grateful and especially to an organization that gave him the opportunity to play in the big leagues.
    I'm sure he is grateful to the people who selected him in the 1975 draft and helped him make his way to the major leagues, I'm sure he's thankful to the fans in Montreal who supported him while he played there. But how do you show gratitude to a franchise that doesn't exist?

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  • MSUlaxer27
    replied
    Originally posted by tinseltown View Post
    Do you have any references regarding Boggs? I did some searching before, and found no confirmed statement about Boggs having a clause in his Tampa Bay contract regarding the Hall of Fame (Boggs has denied it).

    Though I can understand Dawson's feelings of disappointment, bottom line is that he is a Hall of Famer now and still a former Cubbie, and I don't believe the logo on his plaque will do anything to diminish his Chicago ties or negatively affect his financial position.
    I haven't been able to find anything except for Boggs' denials of the clause...kind of odd though that the Hall changed it's former stance of acceding to a players wishes in 2001, after Boggs retired (when the cap stuff was floating around) but before he was elected.

    The difference for Dawson and the Cubs is that now he is a Hall of famer who played for the Cubs as opposed to a Cub Hall of Famer.

    Going in as an expo does not diminish his Chicago ties, but going in as a Cub most definitely would have enhanced them. The word is (and much like Boggs situation it is all conjecture) that Chicago would have retired his number if he'd gone in as a Cub. Which is true baseball immortality, being elected to the HOF (the greatest honor to be sure) where 300K + visit a year or having your number retired by a franchise that has an annual attendance of around 3 million (plus all home games televised)? In which situation is a son more likely to ask his Dad about Andre Dawson?

    His number may still be retired by the Cubs and this will all be moot. I'm just suggesting to look at it from his side today, when the expos no longer exist. The expos can't doing anything for him anymore, while the Cubs can.
    Last edited by MSUlaxer27; 02-11-2010, 04:19 AM.

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  • Bitter Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    You're thinking like a fan, which is understandable.

    From a player's standpoint it's a bit different I suppose having your jersey retired by an active franchise vs. having your HOF ceremony (or number retirement ceremony) at a hockey arena during a period break.

    I don't think it was a case of FU to Montreal, but historically and financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub as opposed to an Expo.

    Quite frankly if it hadn't have been for Wade Boggs definitely (and Dave Winfield probably), it wouldn't have been an issue and he would have gone in the Hall as a Cub. It is only because of the Hall's new policy that he had to be as vocal as he was in hopes he could go in as a Cub.

    I'm sure he will still have a ceremony at Wrigley, but it won't be a number retirement ceremony.

    I think your Bkln/LA and Mont./D.C. analogy is incorrect. The difference being that LA acknowledged if not celebrated their Brooklyn heritage, while D.C. does not recognize Montreal.
    Really you can just come off the condescending spiel and say "financially he has much more to gain going in as a Cub...".

    He wants to be a Cub because he can get more money writing "ANDRE DAWSON HOF" on 8x10s with him in a Cub jersey. He might be able to parlay it into one of those no-show special assistant to a GM roles. He can do appearances in Chicagoland.

    And you know what? He can probably still do a lot of those if he wants to. But that it's almost his entire reasoning for wanting to be a Cub - not world championships, memorable moments, et al. - makes me unsympathetic.

    Stop whining Hawk. A lot of us know you're a borderline Hall of Famer at best. Consider yourself VERY lucky that steroids came around, because without it you'd likely not have been inducted into the Hall of Fame.

    Leave a comment:


  • exposhistory
    replied
    I still don't understand his "disappointment" (or anyone else's in similar position). Play baseball for a living, make millions, have adoring fans and be enshrined into the baseball HOF. He should be grateful and especially to an organization that gave him the opportunity to play in the big leagues.

    Leave a comment:


  • tinseltown
    replied
    Originally posted by MSUlaxer27 View Post
    Quite frankly if it hadn't have been for Wade Boggs definitely (and Dave Winfield probably)
    Do you have any references regarding Boggs? I did some searching before, and found no confirmed statement about Boggs having a clause in his Tampa Bay contract regarding the Hall of Fame (Boggs has denied it).

    Though I can understand Dawson's feelings of disappointment, bottom line is that he is a Hall of Famer now and still a former Cubbie, and I don't believe the logo on his plaque will do anything to diminish his Chicago ties or negatively affect his financial position.

    Leave a comment:

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