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  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by johnny
    It would be cool to have a distinct retro park with the Polo Grounds dimensions but you may run into the problem us Seattle M's fans run into vis a vi bringing in good hitters who want a home park that pads the numbers. Fair or not, Safeco Field is perceived as 'unfair' by some hitters and makes it difficult to bring in quality free agent hitters.
    This won't be a problem as Shea historically has always been a pitchers park. Besides if the inside did resemble the PG many straight pull hitters would love to launch those 256 ft. "chinese homeruns" like Mel Ott used to launch. Just look at the famous "shot heard round the world" In every modern park that would be an easy fly-out.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Now why would you subject yourself to a Marvelous Marv jersey? LOL. Just kidding. The reason I didn't want to mention the pinstripes is because the Mets took that early home look as a homage to the Yankees of all teams! This way all three original MLB NY teams are identified in the Mets uniform.

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  • POLO GROUNDS 1957
    replied
    mets

    Originally posted by theAmazingMet
    I agree totally that Shea is a non-descrept ballpark whose only endearing quality is the apple in the tophat. The Wilpons are planning a new stadium which resembles the outside facade of Ebbets Field. Haven't seen what the inside will look like but wouldn't it be nice to have it resemble the Polo Grounds with a deep CF? This way the New York NL team will pay homage to the two original NL New York teams, like their uniforms do. Orange and interlocking NY for the NYG, and blue for the Dodgers. We won't mention why their home uni's have pinstripes though!
    Coincidentally I've had a burning question that maybe someone here knows the answer to;
    Was their any effort made by the SF Giants to block the Mets from using the interlocking NY on the caps due to a trademark, or other intellectual property argument?
    In all of the years that i have studyed about the polo grounds i have never read anything about the giants trying to block the mets from using that logo. i was 3 years old when she was torn down in 1964. maybe some of the older members may have more info on this. as fars as the mets home uniforms i dont see them wearing the jerseys with the pinstripes that often.they look alot like the 1962 uniforms.i would love to have a replica 1962 marv throneberry and richie ashburn mets jersey. you also may want to checkout my polo grounds website.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnny
    replied
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet
    I agree totally that Shea is a non-descrept ballpark whose only endearing quality is the apple in the tophat. The Wilpons are planning a new stadium which resembles the outside facade of Ebbets Field. Haven't seen what the inside will look like but wouldn't it be nice to have it resemble the Polo Grounds with a deep CF? This way the New York NL team will pay homage to the two original NL New York teams, like their uniforms do. Orange and interlocking NY for the NYG, and blue for the Dodgers. We won't mention why their home uni's have pinstripes though!
    Coincidentally I've had a burning question that maybe someone here knows the answer to;
    Was their any effort made by the SF Giants to block the Mets from using the interlocking NY on the caps due to a trademark, or other intellectual property argument?
    It would be cool to have a distinct retro park with the Polo Grounds dimensions but you may run into the problem us Seattle M's fans run into vis a vi bringing in good hitters who want a home park that pads the numbers. Fair or not, Safeco Field is perceived as 'unfair' by some hitters and makes it difficult to bring in quality free agent hitters.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    I agree totally that Shea is a non-descrept ballpark whose only endearing quality is the apple in the tophat. The Wilpons are planning a new stadium which resembles the outside facade of Ebbets Field. Haven't seen what the inside will look like but wouldn't it be nice to have it resemble the Polo Grounds with a deep CF? This way the New York NL team will pay homage to the two original NL New York teams, like their uniforms do. Orange and interlocking NY for the NYG, and blue for the Dodgers. We won't mention why their home uni's have pinstripes though!
    Coincidentally I've had a burning question that maybe someone here knows the answer to;
    Was their any effort made by the SF Giants to block the Mets from using the interlocking NY on the caps due to a trademark, or other intellectual property argument?

    Leave a comment:


  • POLO GROUNDS 1957
    replied
    Originally posted by StanTheMan
    I'm new here..... but am a bit of a Polo Ground nut. (Thoroughly dissapointed that when I took the subway from Grand Central to Yankee Stadium a year ago... I either could not see, or forgot to look, for the Polo Ground site....)



    What were the Dodgers-Mets, and Giants-Mets games like once the Mets were formed, and those two teams came back to NY? Attendance? Crowd? Hatred or joy? Can't imagine much joy... or did the Giants Fans even go see the game? How could you not?????? Giants Mets at the Polo Grouds!!! Did the fans from Brooklyn make the trip to the PG?
    Bryan in Indy
    As far as the polo grounds site you cant miss it the next time you go to yankee stadium, its across the river from the ballpark you can see the polo grounds apartments.i was there in 1988 and saw the area and also took photos. i also went to brooklyn to see the ebbets field apartment in 1988.

    As far as the dodgers and giants playing the mets at the polo grounds in 1962 and 1963 the mets drew very well when those teams came to the polo grounds.
    Glad to see another polo grounds fan here. the polo grounds out of the three classic new york stadiums does not get the respect it should. P.S. i cant stand shea stadium.

    Leave a comment:


  • POLO GROUNDS 1957
    replied
    polo grounds

    Originally posted by theAmazingMet
    Read my above thread, don't assume everyone in NY takes the subway. There are no subways connecting LI, Conn, or Jersey (unless you count the path) to Manhattan. These fans would have to take either Metro North, LIRR, or Jersey Transit to either Grand Central, or Penn Station, then switch to the subway. This type of travel would take 1-2 hours depending on where you live. In addition many people who live in the outer boroughs, especially Staten Island, and Eastern Queens don't have subway access. As a matter of fact those people living on the east side of Manhattan don't have subway access either. People normally dont want to spend hours traveling to games.
    Here is a good case in point. It could take a Mets fan living in Queens over an hour to get to Shea by subway. If they lived in say Belle Harbor they would have to take a shuttle train to Broad Channel (10 min.) From Broad Channel they would take the A train to Broadway-Junction in Brooklyn and transfer to the J train (30 min.) From Broadway Junction take the J to Jamaica (15-20 min.) From there take the F train to Roosevelt Ave. (25-30 min) Take the 7 train from Roosevelt Ave to Willets point (15 min) That makes a conservative estimate taking local trains in the same borough via subway to a total of 1:45 min. Not everyone who lives in NY takes the subway, especially those who live outside Manhattan. NYC is not just the island but 4 other boroughs where more people drive. You need ample parking to survive in todays world. That is why just as much consideration goes into parking lots, that goes into the actual construction of a new stadium.
    I will say this again. if the yankees today still can play across the river at yankee stadium and draw as many fans as they do today, the giants or mets still could play at the polo grounds today. whether or not fans use the subway to go to yankee stadium i dont know that info.i have never liked shea stadium and will never like shea stadium. i cant wait to see the wrecking ball go at shea stadium, that will make up for the day in 1964 that they tore down the polo grounds.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by StanTheMan
    I'm new here..... but am a bit of a Polo Ground nut. (Thoroughly dissapointed that when I took the subway from Grand Central to Yankee Stadium a year ago... I either could not see, or forgot to look, for the Polo Ground site....)

    The dimensions of the Polo Grounds should absolutely been a part of the park for every baseball game ever played there, whether or not it was in 1950, or 2000..... not that it could have lasted that long.


    What were the Dodgers-Mets, and Giants-Mets games like once the Mets were formed, and those two teams came back to NY? Attendance? Crowd? Hatred or joy? Can't imagine much joy... or did the Giants Fans even go see the game? How could you not?????? Giants Mets at the Polo Grouds!!! Did the fans from Brooklyn make the trip to the PG? or to Shea once it was built?

    Bryan in Indy
    Believe it or not there are still fans of the Dodgers, and Giants that go to Shea to watch their transplanted team play the Mets. Their fans are not as prevelant as in years past but they still show up, and many passed on the love of those teams onto their kids. Again the Yankees and Mets fans greatly outnumber fans of the Dodgers and Giants but those teams still retain some fans in NY.
    To answer your second question most fans of the NY NL teams did become fans of the Mets. Switching from a Dodger or Giant fan to a Yankee fan is sacreligious. Would be like a Red Sox fan becoming a Yankee fan to raise a modern equivelent.

    Leave a comment:


  • StanTheMan
    replied
    Interesting Thread

    I'm new here..... but am a bit of a Polo Ground nut. (Thoroughly dissapointed that when I took the subway from Grand Central to Yankee Stadium a year ago... I either could not see, or forgot to look, for the Polo Ground site....)

    The dimensions of the Polo Grounds should absolutely been a part of the park for every baseball game ever played there, whether or not it was in 1950, or 2000..... not that it could have lasted that long.


    What were the Dodgers-Mets, and Giants-Mets games like once the Mets were formed, and those two teams came back to NY? Attendance? Crowd? Hatred or joy? Can't imagine much joy... or did the Giants Fans even go see the game? How could you not?????? Giants Mets at the Polo Grouds!!! Did the fans from Brooklyn make the trip to the PG? or to Shea once it was built?

    Bryan in Indy

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    Originally posted by POLO GROUNDS 1957
    I still say that if the yankees still can play across the river at yankee stadium the mets or giants still could be playing today at the polo grounds instead of that dump called shea stadium.you can complain all you want to about the parking around the stadium but it could work there in new york with the subway system.
    Read my above thread, don't assume everyone in NY takes the subway. There are no subways connecting LI, Conn, or Jersey (unless you count the path) to Manhattan. These fans would have to take either Metro North, LIRR, or Jersey Transit to either Grand Central, or Penn Station, then switch to the subway. This type of travel would take 1-2 hours depending on where you live. In addition many people who live in the outer boroughs, especially Staten Island, and Eastern Queens don't have subway access. As a matter of fact those people living on the east side of Manhattan don't have subway access either. People normally dont want to spend hours traveling to games.
    Here is a good case in point. It could take a Mets fan living in Queens over an hour to get to Shea by subway. If they lived in say Belle Harbor they would have to take a shuttle train to Broad Channel (10 min.) From Broad Channel they would take the A train to Broadway-Junction in Brooklyn and transfer to the J train (30 min.) From Broadway Junction take the J to Jamaica (15-20 min.) From there take the F train to Roosevelt Ave. (25-30 min) Take the 7 train from Roosevelt Ave to Willets point (15 min) That makes a conservative estimate taking local trains in the same borough via subway to a total of 1:45 min. Not everyone who lives in NY takes the subway, especially those who live outside Manhattan. NYC is not just the island but 4 other boroughs where more people drive. You need ample parking to survive in todays world. That is why just as much consideration goes into parking lots, that goes into the actual construction of a new stadium.

    Leave a comment:


  • POLO GROUNDS 1957
    replied
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet
    While I bemoan the loss of both the Dodgers, and Giants the simple fact of the matter is location.
    Since this is the NYG page I will address the problems with the Polo Grounds. While the stadium was beautiful it's location flat out stinks. Having worked in that area of Manhattan the neighborhood isn't exactly the type of place you want to travel to for a ballgame. There is no parking in the immediate area. While it is always common to assume that New Yorkers travel by subway this is the exception not the norm for fans to travel to ballgames in NYC. Yankee stadium has been hurt by this problem, and the new stadium will provide for more parking than exists today, which is still more than existed at the Polo Grounds. Shea Stadium has tons of parking and the lots usually fill up. Not many choose to take mass transit to either stadium. Large numbers of the fans of either team travel from Connecticut, New Jersey and Long Island. Without ample parking you are alienating a large fan base. In addition the island of Manhattan is increasingly being overrun by out of towners. A recent article by New York Magazine estimated that roughly half of all of those people currently residing in Manhattan were born elsewhere. These people by and large would travel by subway, and while a Giants game at Coogans Bluff would be a good night out, their alligences would lie elsewhere, hardly the type of fanbase needed to generate consistent revenue. In addition the revenue collected through parking is a great incentive for any venue to have. This was the argument Steinbrenner always makes when making overtures to relocate, bad location, not enough parking. The exact reason why Bloomberg's folly of a West Side Stadium for the Jets failed, too much congestion in Manhattan for a stadium ever to survive on the island. Driving in the city everyday I can attest to the traffic nightmare a stadium would create.
    I still say that if the yankees still can play across the river at yankee stadium the mets or giants still could be playing today at the polo grounds instead of that dump called shea stadium.you can complain all you want to about the parking around the stadium but it could work there in new york with the subway system.

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    While I bemoan the loss of both the Dodgers, and Giants the simple fact of the matter is location.
    Since this is the NYG page I will address the problems with the Polo Grounds. While the stadium was beautiful it's location flat out stinks. Having worked in that area of Manhattan the neighborhood isn't exactly the type of place you want to travel to for a ballgame. There is no parking in the immediate area. While it is always common to assume that New Yorkers travel by subway this is the exception not the norm for fans to travel to ballgames in NYC. Yankee stadium has been hurt by this problem, and the new stadium will provide for more parking than exists today, which is still more than existed at the Polo Grounds. Shea Stadium has tons of parking and the lots usually fill up. Not many choose to take mass transit to either stadium. Large numbers of the fans of either team travel from Connecticut, New Jersey and Long Island. Without ample parking you are alienating a large fan base. In addition the island of Manhattan is increasingly being overrun by out of towners. A recent article by New York Magazine estimated that roughly half of all of those people currently residing in Manhattan were born elsewhere. These people by and large would travel by subway, and while a Giants game at Coogans Bluff would be a good night out, their alligences would lie elsewhere, hardly the type of fanbase needed to generate consistent revenue. In addition the revenue collected through parking is a great incentive for any venue to have. This was the argument Steinbrenner always makes when making overtures to relocate, bad location, not enough parking. The exact reason why Bloomberg's folly of a West Side Stadium for the Jets failed, too much congestion in Manhattan for a stadium ever to survive on the island. Driving in the city everyday I can attest to the traffic nightmare a stadium would create.

    Leave a comment:


  • POLO GROUNDS 1957
    replied
    stoneham

    Originally posted by jints15
    I heard that during the 1957 season,Stoneham did not want to bring up Cepeda and Jim Davenport and Willie Mccovey (even though he was 2 yrs away) to keep attendance down and make his move to S.F. legit. Does anybody have any knowledge of this.
    I never heard about this but it would not suprise me if that happened.

    Leave a comment:


  • jints15
    replied
    I heard that during the 1957 season,Stoneham did not want to bring up Cepeda and Jim Davenport and Willie Mccovey (even though he was 2 yrs away) to keep attendance down and make his move to S.F. legit. Does anybody have any knowledge of this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greg NYG-NYM
    replied
    Originally posted by tonypug
    Stoneham was offered the Flushing Meadow site that is currently Shea Stadium. He turned it down saying Queens is Brooklyn Dodger territory and didn't feel the Giants would draw well there.
    What a charming, antiquated notion on Stoneham's part. If there were any visionaries on hand back then (besides the kind who recognized there was a boatload of money to be made in Los Angeles if you could yourself some free land), they would've understood that the Metropolitan Area was becoming one enormous neighborhood linked by television. While there are surely remnants of what is considered one team's "territory" within a market, all the games of all the teams in the Metropolitan Area are readily available for mass consumption (cable systems willing where the 2006 Mets are concerned). The Mets did not become identified as a Queens team per se. Both New York football teams receive their Sunday visitors in New Jersey and it doesn't keep folks on Long Island from tuning in to their festivities. The Bronx Bombers have their followers in Brooklyn, no matter how heretical that sounds.

    Ideally, the Giants and Dodgers would've found a way to stick around and maintained a semblance what we remember and romanticize about them and their ballparks. More likely, if they had, they would have been swept up in the push to modernity that was so prevalent in the late '50s and early '60s and set up camp in buildings that looked nothing like the Polo Grounds or Ebbets Field. Time marched on and trampled everything that got in its way.

    Leave a comment:

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