Did the Giants ever think about going back?

[aqib]

I remember reading that before they were sold to a group in Toronto in the mid-70s for a move there that was blocked, there was talk about them going back to NY. Was that ever seriously discussed?

[mandrake]

I remember reading that before they were sold to a group in Toronto in the mid-70s for a move there that was blocked, there was talk about them going back to NY. Was that ever seriously discussed?

I may have written about this before, but here goes..... My dad was a die hard Dodger fan, retired FDNY and working in a cushy 'security' job in the Essex House. (I think it was the late 1980's or very early 1990's). He siad he met Bob Laurie there one night, who freely discussed palns for a baseball stadium just south of the Meadowlands complex. BL said that the Giants were very interested, but that the Yankees were seriously thinking of moving in to NJ, therefore blocking the Giants. The Mets did not have objections, since the Mets fan base would not be as affected by a NJ stadium. This was nearly 20 years ago, and the attendance for the Yanks was nothing like it is today.
Many MLB owners still feel that the metro NY area could handle 3 teams, and that a third team would help even the TV money that the Yanks wallow in.

[Shotgun Shuba]

I was thinking about this over the weekend actually. The Giants have had a few occasions over the years where their time in the Bay Area was over. I remember seeing the final game ceremonies on ESPN in the 90's when they were packed a ready to go to Tampa. They always were able to blame it on the park but these next years will be crucial. They will have truly AWFUL teams, like 110-120 losses awful, and the park itself will have to keep the fans interest. SF sports fans are solid enough but do they love baseball, we will see. The A's will be gone so I don't know how that will affect the Giants. Getting back to NY though. There really is no reason for the Giants to come back. The Mets really ARE the NY Giants. If the SF club moved to Newark for example it would just be sematics, really. The Mets adopted all of the NY national league heritage and the Giants coming would be no different than the Pirates or Reds(who it was reported WERE coming in the late '50s.) The Giants took Willie with them but that was really it. You can't get stuck on the continuation thing. If Horace had left the name, the Mets would quite literally be the Giants today just like the Cleveland Browns situation. Anyway, I would love too see the Giants come back but I don't think it would be as poignant as you think.
p.s. I remember in the 80's or maybe the early 90's, WINS radio had a TV promo saying "are the Giants moving back to NY, check 1010 WINS" or someting to that effect.

[Shotgun Shuba]

Ralph, I think the fact that the Mets brought back so many Dodgers was a result of so many Brooklyn greats being washed up at that exact point and having nowhere else to go. In 1962 the Mets were never going to get Willie back and there was really nobody left to recycle from the old days. Nobody wanted to see Dusty Rhodes, Johnny Antonelli, Willard Marshall and John Mize play, if they still could. The Mets wanted to bring back NY greats and the only ones around were Dodgers. It was not a concerted effort to spite the Giants, believe me.
I think it's interesting though that looking at your baseball library you must love the Mets. If you felt they were just Dodger scrubs and sympathizers why bother with them? Wilpon is a Dodger sympathizer, though, and you are right about the park.
It's also interesting that you live in the Bay Area now too, along with your old team. Do you ever get that same thrill when the Jints come charging out of the dugout in their home whites?

[Shotgun Shuba]

They are a hard team to shake, I am sure. I have always loved Stretch and was at Shea for Willie's last homer in '73. Even though I post mostly in the dodger forum, I have a secret love of "My Giants". Speaking of which, You are the only person I have ever known, other than me, who has that book by Russ Hodges. I think I have read it 30 times. They are the New York that was and the San franciso that is...my Giants. Anyway, Dodgers-Jints on opening day is always fun... see you on the Haight!

[aqib]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Stoneham

I was referring to the last paragraph in this article. Of course its wikipedia which isn't always accurate. To be honest if it happened in the late 70s at that point they would have only been away for about 20 years so it would have been like the Oakland Raiders situation.

[Shotgun Shuba]

Over the years I have heard the NJ plan a few times but I have no direct resource to state where I heard it from. They were in very bad shape in the
'70's in that wretched ballpark. I know Stoneham regretted the decision to move later in his life. So, if you look at how it would have worked: San Francisco gets an American League expansion team(the Blue Jays spot) in '77 along with the Mariners who play in the West. The Chisox move to the Eastern Division. The Giants play in the Eastern Division and share renovated Yankee Stadium for two years(In a switch from the early 20's) and the NY Giants open up a gleaming new ballpark in the Meadowlands called Giants Stadium Too. It would have been fun. By the way, I am still not so sure about the Giants in SF, that ballpark debt is a killer. I don't know how well they would have been received. New York has always been the best baseball town in the country but in the late 70's the Mets couldn't draw flies and well into the 80's the Yankees played to 20,000 a night. The Raiders(who I love with every ounce of my being) have never fully recovered in the fan's eyes and I doubt the Giants would have either. It might have been a nostalgic mistake for the boys in burnt orange.

[chinese home run]

Horace Stoneham had considered moving the Giants back to the New York area when the Meadowlands Sports complex was getting off the ground in 1974. However, Sonny Werblin told him in effect, "Sure, you can come, as long as you pay for the ballpark yourself."

With the Giants attendance dropping down to a little over half a million by then- a third of what they drew eight years earlier- by then, Stoneham could barely afford to pay the rent at Candlestick, never mind pay for a ballpark of his own in New Jersey.

It's a shame that he allowed the franchise to wither twice in both locations within twenty years of each other, but moving back there wouldn't have solved a thing.

[mandrake]

Horace Stoneham had considered moving the Giants back to the New York area when the Meadowlands Sports complex was getting off the ground in 1974. However, Sonny Werblin told him in effect, "Sure, you can come, as long as you pay for the ballpark yourself."

With the Giants attendance dropping down to a little over half a million by then- a third of what they drew eight years earlier- by then, Stoneham could barely afford to pay the rent at Candlestick, never mind pay for a ballpark of his own in New Jersey.

It's a shame that he allowed the franchise to wither twice in both locations within twenty years of each other, but moving back there wouldn't have solved a thing.

I have done some searching on the Web, and it appears that there was a second chance for the Jints to come back east. However, in 1987 the NJ voters defeated the bond proposal to build a baseball stadium in the Meadowlands. Would this have been for the Giants, or the Yankees ? We may never know.

[aqib]

I have done some searching on the Web, and it appears that there was a second chance for the Jints to come back east. However, in 1987 the NJ voters defeated the bond proposal to build a baseball stadium in the Meadowlands. Would this have been for the Giants, or the Yankees ? We may never know.

I think it would have had to be for the Yankees or a Suncoast Dome situation. Stoneham was gone from the Giants for 10 years at the time. I am not sure what Bob Laurie's thoughts were but further up this thread people said he was interested.

[six4three]

It was a Suncoast Dome situation.

Jersey Senate Backs a Referendum on Baseball Stadium Bonds
By JOSEPH F. SULLIVAN, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: September 15, 1987

"The construction of the 45,000-seat stadium, which the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority said would not occur until the state had signed up a major-league team, would be financed by general obligation bonds paid for by state taxes."


JERSEY HAS BALL PARK SITE; IT NEEDS A TEAM
By ROBERT HANLEY, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 16, 1987

"Obstacles to Overcome
Construction cannot start, however, until three obstacles are overcome, Mr. Mulcahy said. A baseball franchise -whether an existing team or a new expansion team - must be willing to come to New Jersey. Voters must approve $185 million in bonds to buy the site and build the stadium. And the Yankees and Mets must agree to waive territorial rights that give them a veto over a third major league team in the metropolitan area.

...

Selection of the proposed stadium site renewed speculation that the sports authority would try to entice the Yankees to leave the Bronx and follow the football Giants and Jets - the complex's two prime tenants - across the Hudson River into New Jersey."

[aqib]

Well it does specifically mention the SF Giants as a possibility. But the Yankees would have made sense since they drew heavily from Jersey and at the time there were a few corporations moving out there. They almost lost NBC at the time

[mandrake]

Well it does specifically mention the SF Giants as a possibility. But the Yankees would have made sense since they drew heavily from Jersey and at the time there were a few corporations moving out there. They almost lost NBC at the time

This would add some credence to my Dad's already mentioned chance meeting with Bob Laurie in the Essex House in the late '80s.

[aqib]

Assume the Yanks could have been bought off, do you think Uberroth would have allowed it being that he was a NoCal boy?

[Perseus71]

I'm not sure this has been mentioned on this thread, but when the Giants were up for sale in '89/90??? There was talk about the Denver Giants. The Denver Post, a desperate paper looking for attention, had a front page article and, if I am not mistaken, actually put in DENVER in the Giants logo/font. They talked about the possibility of the Giants moving to Denver. Denver, at that time, was lobbying for major league baseball in the city and there had been ads all over town to support MLB for the future.

NY cannot take a 3rd team now due to the two Single A affiliates in Brooklyn and Staten Island.