C'mon fans of early Seattle baseball

[skeletor]

C'mon fans of early seattle teams like the Rainers and Pilots..how about
sharing yer memories and opinions of this era in northwest baseball,
long before the Mariners and junior..Seattle had a long relationship
with AAA..and the Pilots were a blip on the MLB radar, before being
hiJACKED outta town by Uncle Bud in 1970..

[Iron Jaw]

I remember the Seattle Angels of the PCL, cerca 1968. Growing up in Denver, I used to attend a lot of AAA Denver Bear games. I believe the Seattle Angels were the California Angels' AAA farm team at the time.

It wasn't uncommon to adopt the name of the parent club. Over in Spokane, the team's actual name was the Spokane Indians. But when they were the farm club of the Dodgers, I remember the sportscasters calling them the Spokane Dodgers - despite the fact they had Indians on their shirts.

Yeah, the old PCL. Denver Bears, Seattle Angels, Hawaii Islanders, Portland Beavers, Spokane Indians, Vancouver Mounties, Tulsa Oilers, Oklahoma City 89ers, Phoenix Giants, Indianapolis Indians, Arkansas Travelers - am I missing a couple of teams?

[Aa3rt]

I'd posted this link in another thread over a year ago but it's worth repeating:

Old Pacific Coast League

You'll find links to most of the old PCL teams including the Seattle Raniers. I especially like the Los Angeles Angels link with the photos of LA's Wrigley Field that showed up in so many old television shows and movies.

Ironjaw-do you remember when Denver was the Senators affiliate? I believe that was around 1970-correct me if I'm wrong, at age 50+ some things are starting to fade from my memory.

[Iron Jaw]

Fifty is young. I'm 49, so I'm not far behind..November is coming TOO soon. Actually, I'm 29 .....I've just had twenty 29th birthdays.

Yes, I sure do. The Bears had a successful run as the Twins AAA club through the 1969 season (I'll never forget the 1968 season, with Billy Martin running the Bears), then, the Senators moved in. I remember players like Jeff Burroughs, Tommy Grieve, Rich Billings and a host of others running through Denver. The Bear/Senator deal lasted two seasons if I remember right - I don't recall whether the contact was extended after the Senators moved to Texas.

The Bears then joined the Astros organization. I remember a young Denver flamethrower named J.R. Richard. After that, it was the ChiSox briefly, then a very successful run with the Montreal Expos.

When my family first moved to Denver, the big club was the Tigers. Afterwards, the Braves, then the Twins. In the 50's, the Bears were the AAA club of the Yankees (where Marvelous Marv Throneberry enjoyed a couple of highly productive seasons). But, I didn't live in Denver at that time, and I would have been a bit too young to watch anyway.

[pads4ever]

Well did ya check out the M's at the Pads last Saturday? They wore throwback unis from the old PCL. The Pads wore unis from 1936, their inaugural year and the M's wore the Raniers unis from 1938....check it out....

[Bluesteve32]

I remember the Seattle Angels of the PCL, cerca 1968. Growing up in Denver, I used to attend a lot of AAA Denver Bear games. I believe the Seattle Angels were the California Angels' AAA farm team at the time.

It wasn't uncommon to adopt the name of the parent club. Over in Spokane, the team's actual name was the Spokane Indians. But when they were the farm club of the Dodgers, I remember the sportscasters calling them the Spokane Dodgers - despite the fact they had Indians on their shirts.

Yeah, the old PCL. Denver Bears, Seattle Angels, Hawaii Islanders, Portland Beavers, Spokane Indians, Vancouver Mounties, Tulsa Oilers, Oklahoma City 89ers, Phoenix Giants, Indianapolis Indians, Arkansas Travelers - am I missing a couple of teams?

OLD PCL????

The real old PCL, the one which most remember from the 1930s to the 1950s is the Portland Beavers, Seattle Rainers, Scaremento Solons, Oakland Oaks, San Francisco Seals, Hollywood Stars, Los Angeles Angels, and San Diego Padres. The Padres were the first incarnation of the Hollywood starts for over a decade and the Vernon Tigers became the San Francisco Missions and moved back to LA as the second Stars. SO with that dynamic, you can go back to before WWI woth the "old PCL."

[skeletor]

Minor league ball on the west coast

The olde PCL..indeed...Some really great teams, which fielded
many fine players..Joe D & brother Dominick played for the
Seals..Casey Stengel, all but repaired his mgr career, being
the skipper of the Oakland club in the late 1940's, winning lots
of games, with seasoned old vets, and rookies like Billy Martin.

Casey did so well..The Yankees took notice, and George Weis
the GM, decided to offer Stengel the job for the 1949 season.


prior to that, Casey's mgr career was look at -like a joke...nothing
really special..He had an amazing run from 1949-1960..with N.Y.

[Bluesteve32]

prior to that, Casey's mgr career was look at -like a joke...nothing
really special..He had an amazing run from 1949-1960..with N.Y.

Wouldn't almost anyoe could have ahd a similar run with those Yankees?

My grandfather told me a lot about the old PCL as he grew watching many of those layers ending up in the Bigs. He went to old Wrigley quite often and used to complain that many of those midwestern and east coast cities were much smaller than LA and some even had two teams. The weather in the PCL was another factor and they would travel on Monday and play the whole week in the same city with a Sunday DH being a 9 inning and then a 7 inning game.

[skeletor]

Casey's run with the Yanks

I dunno...I think Casey was the right Mgr for the ball club at
the time of his hiring..Bucky Harris, who Casey replaced, had
so so success, with the club Casey was given..Casey, of course
with the help of George Weis, (GM) added players that Casey
knew could help the club..if anything, Stengel was a shrewed
judge of talent..And knew how to crack the whip, and back off
his players..His performance in the PCL, with Oakland, proved
that he deserved another shot in the bigs..Not everyone within
the New York axis, was happy with Casey's selection..The press
agent cried out ' we have hired a clown '...some clown..who missed
winning the AL only in two years..1954, ( Indians ) 1959 ( White Sox )
and both of those clubs were skippered by Al Lopez..Again, we can all
mused about anyone handling the Yankees from 1949-1960, and maybe
this is true..But my gut feeling..was Casey was the missing piece of
the puzzle..of the Yankees..who pulled it all together..

[Bluesteve32]

I guess you may be right. Hey Casey Stengel is big time here in So Cal. He lived and died in Glendale, where the best ball field wherne Cresenta Valley High School and Glendale College play their home baseball games is named for him, Stengel Field. He is buried at Glendale Forest Lawn, the same place many of my family is buried.

[skeletor]

Whether or not

It's really just a moot point..concerning whether or not anyone
could have MANAGED the Yankees to all of those flags..we'll
never really know..but the fact being, it was Stengel..who
piloted the Bronx bombers to being the best team in the 1950's
( well at least in the AL ) Both Cleveland and Chicago, and on a
lesser note Baltimore & Detroit, tried their best to overtake the
mighty Yankees teams..In late 1960, after Stengel was fired by
the Yankees, The Tigers came within inches, of hiring Stengel
as their skipper for the 1961 season..sadly they did not..the
Tigers won 101 games that season, Yankees won 109..and maybe
Stengel might have made a dif..but without Stengel's rebirth in
the olde PCL, with the Oakland club, the YANKEES would have
never hired him in 1949...

anyhow, it's great that this Seattle Pilots forum, now has over 100
posts...way to go BBF fans !

[Food]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I dig this topic.

Growing up in Spokane in the late 70s/early 80s, I loved the Spokane Indians of the PCL. The greatest game of the season was when the parent team would play a exhibition game. From '79 through '81, that was the Mariners, so it was a big thrill. Bigger still would be when a player for the Indians would be called up to the Mariners. Guys like Dave Henderson, Bud Bulling, Orlando Mercado, Jerry Narron (I can't believe he's managing! Makes me feel old!), Casey Parsons, we loved those guys! Although the Indians used the Cleveland Indians cartoonish logo, the colors and uniform design were tailored precisely from the Mariners.

In 1982 the Indians switched affiliation to the Angels, and we were crushed! Even though we got to see Dick Schofield, Darryl Sconiers, Garry Pettis, and others; and despite that both the Angels and the Spokane Indians won their divisions (the Indians lost the PCL World Series to the Albuquerque Dukes); and despite that the Angels played the exhibition game in Spokane and the whole town showed up to see Reggie Jackson, it still felt like a totally different team and I couldn't be quite as passionate.

In 1982, the owner, Mr. Koentop (sp?), moved the team to Las Vegas to become the third LV Stars, and Spokane got stuck with a Class A-Rookie team of the Northwest League. It was never as interesting from then on.

[Rainiers Fan]

Just ran across this site, which caused me to drag out my memorabilia then register on the site.

As a kid, first heard Rainiers games on radio in Alaska, then attended games during mid 1950s after moving to Seattle, then ‘61 & ‘62 while at UW. After returning from Navy, attended Angels games in ’68, Pilots in ’69, then Mariners from ’77 onward.

Remember attending standing room only games during ’55 championship year when Fred Hutchison was manager. Admission for kids to left field bleachers on Saturday “Knot Hole Gang” day was 10 cents (sometimes free with Bar-S hot dog wrapper). Foul balls were a "pig pile" free for all.

Still have Rainiers team pictures from ‘54, ‘55 & ‘61, scorecards from ‘54, ‘55, ‘56 (autographed by Elmer Singleton, Ray Orteig, Larry Jansen, Don Fracchia, Jim Moran, Milt Smith, Harvey Zernia & Bud Podbelian), ‘61 & ‘62. Also, miscellaneous individual player pictures, and autographs, including radio broadcaster Leo Lassen and team president Dewey Soriano. Also, LP record,“The Leo Lassen Story,” with play by play recording of parts of an early '50s Rainiers-LA Angels game.

Seattle Angels: 1968 scorecard – manager Joe Adcock, players included Jim Bouton & John Olerud, Sr.

Pilots: April 1969 scorecard vs. Oakland Athletics, manager Hank Bauer, coach Joe Dimaggio, players incl. Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, Blue Moon Odom & Rollie Fingers.

Also, 45rpm record of Pilots’ official theme song, “Go, Go, You Pilots!” “Pilotune” label, composed by Rod Belcher, performed by “Doris Doubleday and His Command Pilots.”

Lived about two miles from Sick's Stadium and attended quite a few Pilot games with buddies, generally in outfield bleachers – smuggled in our own beer to avoid steep ballpark prices.

Some personal memories include a game when Pilots manager Joe Schultz made out two sets of lineup cards because of uncertainty about whether other starting pitcher would be right or left handed, then gave the wrong card to Orioles manager Earl Weaver, who waited several innings, until a Pilot (Tommy Davis, I think) knocked in two runs, then protest his batting out of order, costing the Pilots the runs.

Then there was the time light hitting Pilots shortstop Ray Ohler got in a fight with Yankees star Bobby Murcer and succeeded in getting both kicked out, an excellent trade for the Pilots.

Several years later, I played against Oyler in a slow-pitch softball tournament in Everett, where he was playing for a team sponsored by a Renton jewelry store. Still couldn't hit worth beans.

[JohnGelnarFan]

Welcome Rainiers Fan! Thanks for sharing your memories with us. I'm sure that others here can identify more since they grew up in the Northwest. I hope that they will also share their memories. Wer'e all Ray Oyler fans! If you look at some of the other threads,you'll see some pictures and Pilots trivia.

[Mikey Jay]

Can't say I have any Pilots memories, but I am a huge Brewers fan and find the beginnings of the franchise fascinating.

I love reading these stories about the Pilots from the people who experienced them. It's not something you can really ask many people.

Though, I must say, I do have one gripe... Bud did not "hijack" the team out of town. Dewey Soriano was meeting with Selig in Milwaukee sort of "under the table" after the '69 season, and had a gentleman's agreement for Selig to purchase the team. And while co-owner William Daley appeared to be comitted to keeping the team with Seattle, it was the Soriano brothers who were going to sell their shares of the club regardless.

The newly elected Mayor Wes Uhlman did not support public funding of a new domed stadium, which was promised by the Sorianos to the Major League owners before Seattle was awarded the team, as the city at the time was in a $5 million deficit. Since the guarantee of this new stadium was a major reason for the league approving a team to be awarded to Seattle as it would improve playing conditions and generate revenue, the fact that the fate of the Pilots was now in the hands of private donors began to wear thin on the American League owners.

So Fred Danz stepped up and offered the dough to keep the team in town. However, the Bank of California decided to call in on $3.5 million of Danz's $4 million loan to help purchase the team.

The Bank of California seemed to have been convinced that the loan was too risky, as they didn't believe Seattle could support a Major League team. But the bank was also a creditor for Pacific Northwest Sports, Inc. - the organization that undertook the process of bringing a team to Seattle. Pacific Northwest Sports lost a ton of money on the team in 1969, and possibly could've been the reason to push the Bank of California against the loan.

The president of Pacific Northwest Sports, Inc.? Dewey Soriano (who succeeded his brother, Max, as president of the organization).

However, one of the investors in the Danz group, Edwin Carlson, formulated a couple other plans to save the Pilots. Carlson's first proposal was balked at by the AL owners as it called for a public ownership of the team (which would devalue all other privately held major league teams).

The second proposal was feasible, but by this time the league owners were frustrated and skeptical that anything would ever work. The owners would still vote to accept the proposal 8-4...however, 9 votes were needed for the proposal to pass. By this time, Pacific Northwest Sports was bankrupt. It seemed clear that there was not any immediate plan for the Pilots, and the American League now had the right to approve a move of the organization, as they did not fulfill several of the requirements that had to be satisfied for Seattle to posess ownership of a major league team.

With the Selig offer still the best on the table, there was no other option left for American League owners but to approve a franchise move to Milwaukee.

The last final push to save the Pilots came in the courts, both in the King County Supreme Court in the form of a lawsuit brought by the Mayor and the State of Washington to prevent a move out of Seattle, and in the Federal Bankruptcy court with the Pacific Northwest Sports hearing.

Justice James Mifflin of the Supreme Court appeared to be unfavorable to the idea of keeping the team in town with so many problems, and the testimony of Pilots General Manager Marvin Milkes (who was never a good choice for GM) on the last day of the hearings sealed the deal. Milkes explained how he couldn't afford the salaries of employees of the organization (coaches, scouts, and players), and with no way for the club to pay the team, the players would become Free Agents and Seattle would not be able to even field a team in the 1970 season. Mifflin had no choice but to strike down the lawsuit.

Meanwhile, the Soriano brothers claimed in Federal Bankruptcy Court that the losses for their company was a result of the bleak outlook for the franchise. And after hearing no counterarguments to their claims, Sidney Volinn, who heard the case, lifted all legal restraints preventing the move from Seattle. Five days later, Volinn signed off on the sale to Selig, and days before the 1970 season was to begin, the team packed up and moved to Milwaukee.

So I would hold the Soriano brothers, Judge Mifflin, and Marvin Milkes accountable for the move before I would ever accuse Bud Selig of "hijacking" a team out of town (a la the Walter O'Malley/Horas Stoneham alliance of the Brooklyn Dodgers/New York Giants move or Bill Bartholomay moving the Braves out of Milwaukee).

Nevertheless, it is fascinating that this ordeal seems to mark the beginnings of the sport of baseball as a commercial enterprise.