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1970 Washington Senators

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  • #31
    Hi TB- This was a great article. I'm saving Bill's picture. I can see the picture of him standing behind Short very clearly in my mind. He sure has changed but I guess we all have. Thanks for finding this piece of nostalgia for us!



    Originally posted by Timbones
    Hi Guys,
    I always check up on this thread, it's had some interesting stuff here. For the record JohnG, "Baseball Bill" was Bill Holdforth, a Washington bartender who allegedly dumped the beer over Short's head, though in fact he denies it, as he says it would have been a waste of beer! He is definitely proud of having held the effigy of Short though. When Short ran for the Senate in 1978, "Bill" and his cronies raised money for his opponent and even took out ads in the Minnesota papers against Short. They were probably a minor factor in his eventual defeat, but at least Short lost anyway.
    I understand "Baseball Bill" is still around and has become a Nationals fan...
    You can read some more about him here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Nov14.html

    Comment


    • #32
      It wasn't easy being a Senators fan sometimes but we loved them. We did take alot of abuse from fans of better teams. Still,the memories of our guys grow fonder as the years go by. I'm glad that we have another team in Washington but they'll never replace the Nats in my heart. The Nationals sure play like the Senators but they don't have anyone close to Frank Howard. Soriano's good but he's no Hondo. He'll probably be just a memory soon anyhow.
      Your brother may have been better than you were but every team needs a slow footed second string catcher!



      Originally posted by Aa3rt
      Yankwood, yeah it probably seems pretty silly to 99 & 44/100ths % of the population, but when you grow up following a team, to have them yanked out from under you is something you really never get over.

      My younger brother used to really rag on me because he was an Orioles fan-and of course, when we were growing up in the mid-1960's the Orioles were good, and the Senators, except for that memorable 1969 season, were usually pretty bad. My brother used to give me a hard time about the Senators/Orioles matchups. He was a much more talented ball player than me-made county all-star a couple of times as a third baseman. He admired Brooks Robinson. Remember that Brooks had the nickname "The Human Vacuum"? Sibling rivalry being what it is, I nicknamed my brother "The Human Suck", a line I would lay on him when he started giving a hard time about the Senators.

      But, once again, I digress. I'm sure there are lots of hard-core Senators fans out there, probably now all in the over fifty age bracket, who have no love for Mr. Short to this day.

      You think we've got it bad? Scroll up a few forums to the Brooklyn Dodgers and see what those folks have to say about Walter O'Malley-he's about as popular as Adolph Hitler in Poland!

      Comment


      • #33
        Speaking of memories, I was thinking the other day of the time I went to a Senators-Angels game in Anaheim in 1971, shortly after the Senators drafted right-hander Pete Broberg out of the Ivy League. He had just joined the team and I got to see him warm up in the bullpen, about 5 feet from where I was, in what had to be only his first or second throwing session with the team. The guy had GREAT stuff. If he had been with an organization that didn't try to rush their pitchers (i.e. David Clyde), he could have been something with a little minor league seasoning. He and Joe Coleman might have been my favorite Senators pitchers of all time.

        Originally posted by JohnGelnarFan
        It wasn't easy being a Senators fan sometimes but we loved them. We did take alot of abuse from fans of better teams. Still,the memories of our guys grow fonder as the years go by. I'm glad that we have another team in Washington but they'll never replace the Nats in my heart. The Nationals sure play like the Senators but they don't have anyone close to Frank Howard. Soriano's good but he's no Hondo. He'll probably be just a memory soon anyhow.
        Your brother may have been better than you were but every team needs a slow footed second string catcher!

        Comment


        • #34
          What can I say guys except thanks for the memories! I'll always remember standing on rickety DC Transit buses with my Mom to go to Senators games in the sixties, it was a long trip cross town and the AC wasn't always working but we wanted to see our Nats. Mom was a huge fan and longed for another team but had to wait and wait like the rest of us.
          Here's a nice quote from Ken McMullen:
          "Fourteen years in the major leagues is a good career," concluded McMullen. "I met real nice people along the way. I loved the years in Washington because we were all young and struggling trying to get a head. They say when you're poor you have more fun than when you are rich. That was what it was like with the Senators. We were poor but we had a lot of fun."

          It's from a long article but I am sure you guys might want to read the rest so go here: http://www.historicbaseball.com/play...ullen_ken.html

          Comment


          • #35
            He was from Dartmouth,wasn't he? I went to Pete Broberg's debut as a Senator and he did have great stuff. It was against the Red Sox and he was very impressive.He pitched some very good games in 1971 although he ended up just 5-9. He must not have gotten proper instruction after that because his numbers were never as good. I remember seeing him pitch for other teams later and he had a very ugly windup. They must have totally screwed up what made him such a promising pitcher. It's funny that you mention him being rushed because yesterday I posted comments in the Washington Nationals site under "Bowden and Trades" saying the same thing. I also mentioned David Clyde and a few others.
            Joe Coleman was such a great young pitcher. He came up in 1965 and his only appearance was a complete game victory. In 1966,he pitched twice and both appearances were complete game victories. He had some good numbers for the Senators but playing in Washington,his won-lost record suffered. Once he went to Detroit(and got fat!),he won 20,19 and 23 before tailing off to 14 and 10. I have a picture of the young,skinny,Joe on my wall at home.




            Originally posted by HondoHR33
            Speaking of memories, I was thinking the other day of the time I went to a Senators-Angels game in Anaheim in 1971, shortly after the Senators drafted right-hander Pete Broberg out of the Ivy League. He had just joined the team and I got to see him warm up in the bullpen, about 5 feet from where I was, in what had to be only his first or second throwing session with the team. The guy had GREAT stuff. If he had been with an organization that didn't try to rush their pitchers (i.e. David Clyde), he could have been something with a little minor league seasoning. He and Joe Coleman might have been my favorite Senators pitchers of all time.

            Comment


            • #36
              I used to take the same route TB! My friends father used to drop us off at a bus station in Bethesda and we'd ride into D.C.,switch buses and go to R.F.K. It was a long,hot trip! We were exhausted by the time we got home but it was well worth it. We would buy our upper deck tickets and move all over the stadium,ending up down below if it was a blowout and the ushers let us sit there. Your Mother sounds great and must have been a big fan. When my mother would take us to night games,she would let us hang around the players enterance afterwards for autographs. She didn't like sports and now that I'm older,I really appreciate her patience. I had a book full of great(and not so great) autographs but lost them in a house fire. Oh,how I miss my Tim Cullen Scrapbook! So many years later,I have a picture of he and I shaking hands at the last reunion on my wall. That eases the pain a little!
              Thanks for the Ken McMullen article. I recently purchased an autographed 1970 card on ebay. That site has a good one on Eddie Brinkman too.



              Originally posted by Timbones
              What can I say guys except thanks for the memories! I'll always remember standing on rickety DC Transit buses with my Mom to go to Senators games in the sixties, it was a long trip cross town and the AC wasn't always working but we wanted to see our Nats. Mom was a huge fan and longed for another team but had to wait and wait like the rest of us.
              Here's a nice quote from Ken McMullen:
              "Fourteen years in the major leagues is a good career," concluded McMullen. "I met real nice people along the way. I loved the years in Washington because we were all young and struggling trying to get a head. They say when you're poor you have more fun than when you are rich. That was what it was like with the Senators. We were poor but we had a lot of fun."

              It's from a long article but I am sure you guys might want to read the rest so go here: http://www.historicbaseball.com/play...ullen_ken.html
              Last edited by JohnGelnarFan; 07-02-2006, 12:37 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                John,

                Yes, Broberg was from Dartmouth and you're right ... going to the Senators at that point in his young career was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him. With the proper organization, I really think he could have been something!

                Originally posted by JohnGelnarFan
                He was from Dartmouth,wasn't he? I went to Pete Broberg's debut as a Senator and he did have great stuff. It was against the Red Sox and he was very impressive.He pitched some very good games in 1971 although he ended up just 5-9. He must not have gotten proper instruction after that because his numbers were never as good. I remember seeing him pitch for other teams later and he had a very ugly windup. They must have totally screwed up what made him such a promising pitcher. It's funny that you mention him being rushed because yesterday I posted comments in the Washington Nationals site under "Bowden and Trades" saying the same thing. I also mentioned David Clyde and a few others.
                Joe Coleman was such a great young pitcher. He came up in 1965 and his only appearance was a complete game victory. In 1966,he pitched twice and both appearances were complete game victories. He had some good numbers for the Senators but playing in Washington,his won-lost record suffered. Once he went to Detroit(and got fat!),he won 20,19 and 23 before tailing off to 14 and 10. I have a picture of the young,skinny,Joe on my wall at home.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Hi Art - Welcome back to the land of the non-argumentative!

                  When the Senators moved to Texas,Broberg went 5-12 with a 4.30 ERA. He started 25 games and relieved in another 14. He had really good hits in Innings pitched ( 176 innings,153 hits) but walked 85. He struck out 133 and pitched one shutout. In 1973,he was 5-9 with a 5.60 ERA and walked 66 in 119 innings,while striking out only 57. In 1974,at 24 years old,he only pitched in 12 games,was 0-4 and his ERA rose to 8.07
                  In December of 1974,the Rangers finally gave up on Pete and traded him to the Brewers for Clyde Wright. In 1975,he went 14-16 with a 4.13 ERA(high in those days) and walked more than he struck out. He never got on track and only went 1-7 in 1976. He spent 1976 with the Cubs,going 1-2 and finished his 8 year career in Oakland,going 10-12 with a 4.62 ERA
                  His career record was 41-71 with a 4.56 ERA and 6 shutouts. A promising career filled with potential was clearly mishandled.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JohnGelnarFan
                    Hi Art - Welcome back to the land of the non-argumentative!

                    .
                    You're killin' me. But how true!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      You're the reason I said it! I hope that Art won't have reservations about visiting our little corner of BBF. Senators fans are very patient and kind people!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        1970 Senators

                        I don't know if anyone has done the runs scored / runs allowed analysis for the 1969 Senators, to determine what their record should be, but it seems that they must have had an awful lot of luck, good fortune, karma, etc., and that the situation reversed itself in 1970. I doubt the difference in runs scored and allowed factors out to 10 games over .500.
                        This observation is just a guess based on a couple factors. Darold Knowles 1970 W/L record is totally out whack with his ERA and all other
                        stats. I may have to get out my Sporting News from 1970 to see how many
                        runs they scored for him. I think you would have to go back to the deadball era to find someone with a 2-14 record (or something similar) and a 2.06 ERA.
                        Knowles didn't have much bullpen help in 1970. Only Horacio Pina could be
                        counted on to put out fires, while the 1969 bullpen was 4 deep (Higgins, Knowles, Humphreys, and Baldwin). This bullpen depth was also a plus during the years of Hodges' tenure with the club, and was an underrated factor in
                        whatever success the Nats enjoyed.
                        Considering the quality of the Senators starting pitching, the bullpen becomes even more important. I don't know how many of Casey Cox's 1969 victories came as a reliever, but if you tally them all as in relief the bullpen
                        notched just as many victories as the starters. When your second (Hannan)
                        and fourth (Barry Moore) starters (in terms of number of starts) only win 16 games between them, there is little margin for error. With every starter taking a step backward in 1970, the floor collapsed.
                        I think that Frank Howard's stats for 1970 are even more remarkable because of his teammates futility. What's not to love about big Frank.
                        Love this site. Still love those Senators. Keep posting. It makes great winter reading.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          1970 Topps Poster Frank Howard

                          Here is a nice 1970 topps poster of Frank Howard.
                          Attached Files
                          LONG LIVE THE POLO GROUNDS 1891-1964
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/POLOGROUNDS1962

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I grew up in the Denver area, and the Denver Bears became the AAA farm club of the Senators after severing ties with the Twins after the 1969 season. I watched Tommy Grieve play for the Bears and he had a heck of a season. Of course, another phenom was in the making in Denver also - Jeff Burroughs. I remember thinking that Rich Billings was going to be a top ML catcher.

                            I remember Dick Such pitching for the Bears. I also recall the stadium P.A. and how they "mispronounced" his last name......my Dad always said it was intentional.

                            Jackie Brown also looked like a top pitching prospect at the time, and after showing some flair early on with the Senators and Rangers, he never really lived up to his potential.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I know this is a pretty old thread. Maybe somebody with a better memory than mine can provide more details such as the specific date and etc.

                              In April of 1970 I was a young Marine stationed at Ft. Meade and myself and a couple of buddies decided to drive down the Parkway to see the Senators play the Yankees.

                              I remember paying something like $5 apiece for box seats ( I may be wrong but i think that may have been the most expensive seats in the MLs at the time).

                              Well, we got ourselves quite a game for that though. The Sens were leading 1-0 (Joe Coleman against Fritz Peterson) until there were 2 outs in the top of the 9th when Bobby Murcer hit one over the right-centerfield fence to tie the game. The game went extra innings and just about every relief pitcher on both teams was used in the game. I remember the game ended with Eddie Brinkman sliding across the plate with the winning run in the bottom of the 18th.

                              By the time the game ended there were about 50 people left in the stands. During the game we kept moving up closer to the front until my right shoulder was against the Yankee dugout. I even got to have a short conversation with Pete Ward who was finishing up his career with the Yankees at that time.

                              Later in the summer I took a solo trip there and was in the park the night that Frank Robinson it 2 GS HRs but I don't remember as much of the game. (whattya want, I was 20 yrs old and girl chasing was even more fun).

                              I thought I would share that and maybee somebody can come up with some dates and maybe even a box score or two. Thanks

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                That game was on April 22, 1970. Retrosheet has the box-score and play by play of the game.

                                Comment

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